Speaker 1: 0:46

Welcome to another episode of Backstage Pass Radio. It's Randy Halsey here, and today we're diving into the world of one of the most iconic songwriters of our time, holly Knight. With a career that spans decades, holly has penned some of the most unforgettable hits in rock and pop history, from classics like Love is a Battlefield and Invincible to Better, be Good to Me and the Best. Her words have captured hearts, shaped anthems and influenced generations. From writing chart toppers with Tina Turner to collaborating with legends like Pat Benatar and Bon Jovi, holly Knight's songwriting legacy is nothing short of extraordinary. You guys hang on tight and I will explore her creative process, behind-the-scenes stories and the moments that have divined her illustrious career. So get ready for an inspiring conversation with a true songwriting powerhouse, holly Knight, and we'll do that right after this.

Speaker 2: 1:44

This is Backstage Pass Radio. Backstage Pass Radio A podcast by an artist for the artist. Backstage Pass Radio A podcast by an artist for the artist. Each week, we take you behind the scenes of some of your favorite musicians and the music they created From chart-topping hits to underground gems. We explore the sounds that move us and the people who make it all happen. Remember to please subscribe, rate and leave reviews on your favorite podcast platform. So, whether you're a casual listener or a diehard music fan, tune in and discover the magic behind the melodies. Here is your host of Backstage Pass Radio, Randy Halsey.

Speaker 1: 2:24

I am joined by Holly Knight. Holly, hello and welcome to the show.

Speaker 3: 2:29

Hi, thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 2:31

It's my pleasure. So I guess you're coming to me by way of Southern California this evening, is that correct?

Speaker 3: 2:39

Yes, that's correct. Where are you?

Speaker 1: 2:41

I'm in the greater Houston area, houston Texas, here in Cyprus.

Speaker 3: 2:46

I knew it was Texas, I just wasn't sure.

Speaker 1: 2:48

Yeah, and, believe it or not, it's like freezing outside right now, which is kind of a rare occurrence for Texas, but I'll be in LA this week, so that'll be a nice change of weather for me, for sure.

Speaker 3: 3:01

Well, guess again, because it's pretty cold here.

Speaker 1: 3:04

Well at night, but isn't it in like the 70s during the day, or high 60s?

Speaker 3: 3:09

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:10

I guess that's cooler for you guys but at night it's cold, it's like it's in the 40s, okay, I think it got down to maybe 29 here last night, so you never know what you're gonna get. Yeah, so I'll be down there um this thursday. Um I'll be, uh, going out to see graham bonnet for his um celebration at a I can't remember the name of the venue in LA, but I'll get to stay with Graham this week and go check those guys out. So it'll be a nice change of scenery for sure. If we go a little bit back in time, you were born in New York and now call Southern California home. What part of New York was it that you called?

Speaker 1: 3:53

home, new York City okay, you were in the city, yeah yeah, grew up on the east side, up east side okay and later on, I guess there was maybe a lift and shift and you moved from one coast to the other. What kind of drove the decision to get out of Manhattan and out to the West Coast?

Speaker 3: 4:12

Well, I left it several times. I was the first time I left, I was 15. And I just sort of wandered around the country for a couple of years and moved back to New York and then I kind of got involved in the music scene, which was by design, and I was in a band that got signed to a label that was based out of California. So we did the first record there, then we did the second record and after that I decided that I was better off living out west at that point. So I moved to California and then I lived there for about 15 years. I moved back east, I tried it again, went back thinking I'm going to go home and this is the four seasons and I'm an east coaster, and that lasted almost four years and I really started to hate it, because you know, once you've been in california weather, you're a bit spoiled sure, there's no white.

Speaker 1: 5:09

There's no white stuff there, right like you're used to in in new york yeah and uh.

Speaker 3: 5:15

So I moved back and that was, uh, you know, about 24 years ago. So now then I'm, I'm truly I guess I'm resolved with the fact that I'm a californian, sure, but I'm really, I'm a Californian with a New York DNA.

Speaker 1: 5:30

So a mixed bag or a hybrid, exactly. Well, 15, that's pretty young to jump out of the nest and kind of roam around, right, what? What was driving you? I mean, I guess it was all music related at that time then, right.

Speaker 3: 5:46

Well it was. It was everything's always been music related with me, because I started when I was four taking classical piano and really sort of taking it seriously because I loved it. And yeah, I mean that was one of the things that, joe, there were a lot of things going on and you know, I had an interesting childhood growing up and I just didn't, I didn't want to be living at home anymore, so it makes sense yeah, yeah, that song.

Speaker 3: 6:14

I have a book that I put out about a year and a half ago and it's a memoir and it's got all that juicy stuff in it yeah, and we're definitely going to talk about that.

Speaker 1: 6:23

And I guess you know you said 15, you stepped out, but do you remember what age music really became that second nature to you, that big part of your life that you kind of knew that? You know, this is it for me, right? Did it come at a really early age for you, or was it in the teen years for you?

Speaker 3: 6:44

I was four it was my first language. I was four, I mean, if you mean, like as far as wanting to make a living and participate in a more professional level of music. I just sort of had this dream during my teen years. I just wanted to be a rock star, you know. It wasn't so much about, well, I want to be a songwriter, although I wanted to be in a band and write my own music. It was all part and parcel of the same thing, you know. I wanted to be in a band and write my own music. It was all part and parcel of the same thing, you know.

Speaker 3: 7:13

And when I was 14, I got a job working in a music store in New York city on 48th street, which was like the music that was called music row and they had Manny's and they had Sam Ash, and it was just a scene where, like if, if a band played live, like, say, at the garden during the day, they'd shut, you know, very likely show up at Sam Ash or something where which is where I got my job, of course, and I like just the fact that I was just that one step closer to being in something that was considered professional because it was the music business and I saw a lot of people come in and out of those stores and you know, at that point I'd already seen so many bands live that I just thought that's what I wanted to do is play playing the band. And I left home very young. It was difficult because I didn't play any clubs, because I was underage. You know I ran away from home. You know this wasn't under like consensual sort of permission from my parents. I left home and you know, all the time I always was in sort of permission from my parents, I left home and you know, all the time I always was in sort of like a band we would play in the basement or something, but it really hadn't reached that level where we could start playing stuff live.

Speaker 3: 8:21

And then, when I moved back to New York is when I really got more serious and I thought I'm just gonna we didn't have the word network, but that's what I was doing I'm going to go out every night and network and I'm gonna meet people. And that's what I did. I went to clubs. I went to um backstage. I would sneak into all these venues backstage like the garden. And you know, one thing led to another and there was a one. One of the clubs that I frequented a lot was where I met the band members that became the other members of my first band, spider, which was the first record deal that I got. So at that point when I got a record deal, that's when I crossed over to the dark side you know, I got a record deal, I'm kidding and it wasn't the dark side, it was the professional side of things and that's when I felt actually like it was really going to be able to carve out a living. Hopefully at least I was going to be given a chance at this point.

Speaker 1: 9:16

Sure, it was like probably like the 1980, something like that yeah, was that rough for you, though I mean I don't want to go all the way down a rabbit hole, but you know, jumping out at, you know that young of an age, especially for a girl, right, I would think that I'm sure that was a very interesting time for you right, especially, you know, being on two different coasts and whatnot yeah, it was, and um, the alternative was, I mean, it wasn't just cavalier about it, but I talk about it in my book that you know, I come from some somewhat of an abusive background and so a lot of it had to do with survival.

Speaker 3: 9:54

Sure, okay, you know, um, I don't think I would have just left home. I mean, I, I have kids myself. I can't ever imagine them leaving at 15, you know, right, um, it just it wasn't. It was very dysfunctional and um, and then, you know, added to that, I always have had a bit of a wild streak, anyway, you know, always have valued my freedom and I didn't like being told what to do when it came to my art. Anything else I would do anything. But you know, my mother was grooming me to be a classical pianist and I was, you know, going, know, going through all the you know all the hoops of that and music school and everything. And then I left. But I, you know, I have to say I fell in love with, I was 15. I fell in love with a 20-year-old drummer, and so when I left home I wasn't completely alone.

Speaker 1: 10:44

Okay.

Speaker 3: 10:45

I sort of had I had someone that could kind of protect me or look out for me. But the truth of the matter was I did more of the protecting and looking out for him than he did for me. But at least I wasn't on the road, I wasn't hitchhiking, we had our own vehicle Everywhere we went. We got jobs.

Speaker 1: 11:06

Well, I found your story a little fascinating because you, I always say, don't judge a book by a cover, right? Of course I only know you now, right, and if I, if I look at Holly Knight now, you look like a lovely person with a, probably had a great upbringing, but you really never know what people's stories are at the end of the day. So to hear that piece, and of course I have the book, right, it's right here, but I have to say I haven't read it yet. It just came yesterday. So I don't know, and I'm sure this book, if I'm to guess, and we'll talk more about it in a minute, but I'm sure you're not going into too much dirt in this book about your life and whatnot, it's really more about the songs and stuff from the 80s.

Speaker 3: 11:52

Am I correct there? No, okay, good, it's about everything, okay perfect you know what? It's a love letter to the 80s and it's very centric on the mtv years that really, really focus on when my band spider got signed and from 1980 to 1990 and um, you know there's a an afterward, but it's really focused on that time because that's okay um, that was just a very groundbreaking, exciting time, not only for me but for everybody, with mtv.

Speaker 3: 12:22

And you know, by the end of the decade it was already starting to tank out a bit, you know, of course, um, but I think people mean I had all my empowering girlfriends were like, just say whatever you want to say. You know, I mean, men, do it, just be honest about what you're comfortable with saying and what you've been. And so I did, and I think it's made for actually a much more interesting read. And now, now the book's been my life rights and the book rights have been optioned, so it's going to be made into a series.

Speaker 1: 12:51

Oh, very cool, Very cool. Well, I look forward to reading it.

Speaker 3: 12:55

Yeah, it's not a documentary, it's just like drama, like a base, loosely, you know on. Well, not loosely, but based on my life, but also other things that came into play during that time. Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:09

And I guess how? How would listeners find out information on that? Is there really nothing you can say about that yet, or or is it?

Speaker 3: 13:18

you mean about the series? Yes, it's too soon. We're just fair enough. Fair enough at a point where we're that's still drunk through, jump through hoops, as you know, of course, maybe. Or movies, but it's. It's through hoops, as you know, of course, maybe, or movies, but it's it's. You know, we've got great producer, great writer. I'm not sure what the network's going to be yet, but it'll be.

Speaker 1: 13:37

It'll be outrageously fun, I think well, we'll just have to keep our eyes and ears peeled. For that I wanted to ask you were there certain bands that you were listening to as a youngster that kind of inspired the career path, or was there a group of bands or a band that just did it for you that you? You said, you know, this is just it, this is what I've got to do yeah, I.

Speaker 3: 14:03

you know, I grew up listening to so many different types of music that were not rock until I got to about nine years old, so which?

Speaker 3: 14:12

isn't very old, but nine years old I started hearing music like on a transistor radio in the playground of my school and I'm like what's that you know? So at that point I was listening to some things. I mean, it was a mishmash of things. It was everything from the Beatles to the Stones to Motown. I loved Motown. I loved great songs. I loved even softer stuff, like Mamas and Papas and you know James Taylor and all that. But then, you know, while that was all happening, I got into the doors. And the doors really were, you know, because they sort of had this darkness to them and then they were sort of poetic and Jim Morrison was like my first crush.

Speaker 1: 15:05

But then along came groups like Zeppelin, and that's when my head turned around and I was like what's that?

Speaker 3: 15:08

You know the exorcist thing, right, because it was completely sophisticated and it was unlike anything I'd heard. And there was something very sexy about it too, which at that age I was starting to become aware of these kind of things, of course, Like, oh, he's cute even at nine or ten. And then I mean just growing up, there's so many influences that I have. I mean, one of them, a strong influence of mine as I got older, was Utopia and all the Todd Rundgren stuff. I even like artists like Frank Zappa, you know, anything that was musically just sort of a little bit more interesting than the same old.

Speaker 3: 15:41

Same old I found, and let me say I don't mean same old, same old is bad. I mean, the thing is like some of my favorite songs are two chords. It was really about the combination of, all of a sudden, you had lyrics that went with the music, see, because with classical music it's all just you're just playing songs that you know are brilliant, but there's no connection lyrically or intellectually that you could read. So when I started listening to songs you know that had really interesting lyrics, I think that struck me and I, and even though I liked songs that were like kind of the bubble gum songs, because they were so catchy. I really resonated with songs that had interesting lyrics, you know sure well, and you're right, I mean, zeppelin was all about the sexiness.

Speaker 1: 16:30

I mean, all their stuff was about love and sex, right, I mean it was it just kind of they kind of reaped of that, right, the whole, the whole vibe of Zeppelin did. Yeah, that's cool to hear the influences from the musical side, from a songwriter's perspective. Was there one writer or a person or a group of people that really did it for you, or did you just fall into that gift, the gift of songwriting organically?

Speaker 3: 16:58

It was totally organic for me. I never had any ambition to be a songwriter, other than if I was going to be in a group writing music. But it's very different when you write and you give the songs away to other people and you're not in front of the camera, you're behind the scenes. And so I hadn't been thinking at that point, I'll just be behind the scenes. I just want to be, and I didn't want to be a rock star because I wanted to be famous or rich. I just wanted to be on that side of the stage, up on it, looking down into the audience as opposed to looking.

Speaker 3: 17:30

I love the audience too, but I just sort of felt like there was something different about being up on the stage and being able to do what you love and have people just adoring you for doing something that you love to do anyway. You know, that just seemed supernatural to me and I didn't really have a plan b at the time, like, well, if that doesn't work, what do I do? Just if I hadn't made money doing it, I would have done it anyway and I probably would have been a broke musician. But as luck turned out, or destiny or whatever you want to call it. I had a very, still have very long lasting, successful career which I'm, like I said, I'm so grateful for because I would have done it anyway, you know.

Speaker 1: 18:11

Yeah, exactly, and it's interesting that you say that because I've interviewed many local artists, regional artists and Hall of Fame artists on the show and there's a common denominator, a common theme amongst many of them.

Speaker 1: 18:25

And I'll say some of the bigger names that I've talked to, just to kind of put it in perspective. You're one of many that have said they have known from that young, young age. It wasn't something that developed in there. When you know I'm 15 and I'm figuring this out, it was like four, five, six and the more people that I've talked to I'm like, wow, you know, that's crazy that some of the more elite people in the music business that I've talked to, I mean I, I revere and respect all musicians, right, but the people that have made it to that next level that's the common theme They've known it from a young age and I, like you, started out as a classical pianist and I had that love for music at a very, very young age. So you know we have that connection, but you have that connection with so many people that I've talked to. Your stories are much the same people that have elevated to your level of success in the industry well, I think that you know, we sort of a deeper conversation.

Speaker 3: 19:29

We can cover this quickly. But I think that we do arrive when we're born. We already have souls that are intact and therefore, if you look at anybody that's like really brilliant at what they do, like you know whether it's golf or whether it's, you know, just art or writing. You know writing books, some. Some people just sort of arrive here and they have it. It's like it's intact. Their talent has always been in some sort of creative form. That's also why a lot of creative people can do more than one sort of expression of art. You know, yes, because that's just how we view and see the world. We don't know how to think any other way. Yes, we view and see the world. We don't know how to think any other way. Yes, so yeah, I mean I, I've always said that music was my first language before I even learned to talk, you know, before my feet reached the ground and stuff. And so you know, I was very, very comfortable with that from day one.

Speaker 1: 20:27

I always had a really good ear too. Yeah Well, it's treated you well over the years, and I'm sure you wouldn't disagree with that from day one. And I always had a really good ear too.

Speaker 3: 20:31

Yeah well, it's treated you well over the years, and I'm sure you wouldn't disagree with that right yeah, well, you know what, if you have a choice between that and being able to sight read brilliantly, I would always take the the air one. But I'm not a great sight reader as a result, because when I was studying classical I used to hear the song and then I would sort of cheat and pretend I was reading the music can't do that in classical music.

Speaker 1: 20:52

Come on, holly, you gotta, you gotta say yeah, but I would, I would hear it and memorize it so quickly that I could pull it off I think you know that's not fun enough used to take a train, and he would.

Speaker 3: 21:02

he would be taking a train to a gig that he was about to perform and he would be handed some new sheet music and he would look at it and read it like a book on the train and then, by the time he got to where the concert was, he would perform it no way.

Speaker 1: 21:16

You have a unique writing style that lends itself nicely to multiple genres, to rock, to pop, mm-hmm. But you're correct me if I'm wrong you're a rocker chick or rocker gal at heart, are you not?

Speaker 3: 21:30

Totally.

Speaker 3: 21:30

Yeah, I'm wrong, you're a rocker chick or rocker gal at heart, are you not? Totally? Yeah, totally. And rock and roll keeps you young for sure, you know. You know it's even sort of in. Just my sort of ethos on life is I, you know, just trying to be one of the iconoclasts, or be a prototype, as opposed to a follower? Someone called me a prototype the other day, which I thought was pretty accurate. Actually, you know, I mean, I was very flattered that he said it, but I totally got what he meant by that, because you want to be the. In fact, you know what, when I was 14, my first group that I formed was called Iconoclasts.

Speaker 1: 22:06

Oh really.

Speaker 3: 22:09

Yeah, which is people that are the people that set the trends, as opposed to.

Speaker 1: 22:15

And were you a glory hound as a kid, though, like? I mean, I know you said you wanted to be on the stage. You kind of wanted to have people revere you or maybe look up to you on a stage, versus being on this side of the stage, Right Were you? Did you always have that kind of like I need to just be in the limelight, whether it's music or whatever you're doing, whether it was sports or was it only music for you that kind of gravitated you to be in that spotlight?

Speaker 3: 22:41

I'm not really comfortable being in the spotlight, I hate photo sessions and I hate working the red carpet and I'm just so critical of myself. You know that I'm quite comfortable to sort of have the life that I want to have and write and give the songs to other people life that I want to have and write and give the songs to other people. I mean, I do love performing but it's not because I want the audience to idolize me as much as I want to be up there with the musicians and be in their club. I want to know what you know. I want to be in those rooms like the cool kids right, yeah, exactly, so I didn't get to work out like the idolization or anything, although it's wonderful and it's nice.

Speaker 3: 23:20

It's like I really yeah, I just wanted to be on the inside like sort of just creating and knowing these sort of you know interesting people, that a lot of them were outside the box. Not all of them were great, you know, but well, who wants to be the wallflower?

Speaker 1: 23:38

I mean, I'm a musician here in texas, right, and I mean there's nothing like being up on stage. There's a euphoria about being up on stage and, and, um, you know, a thrill to be up on stage, to know that you have the attention of however many people are in the room that night. Right, I mean, there's a lot to be said for that and not, and not many people can do that, you know there's a unique few of us that can.

Speaker 3: 24:02

Yeah, no, it is fun but, like, the bigger the venues I don't know if you found this, but the bigger the venues are, the less personal it gets. I mean, when you're on a stage and you're playing to 50,000 people and I imagine if you're in a band like that where you're doing that all the time there is definitely a separation between the audience because it's just so big.

Speaker 1: 24:20

You know, like if you're in a small club it's different, you know, because it's just more intimate well, to set the record straight, I do not play clubs that big or venues that big, nor probably do I desire to. But the interesting thing that you say that I had the bass player for the band saxon on my show, nibs carter, wonderful guy, and we talked about that, you know. I mean saxon plays these shows for hundreds of thousands of people at these monster rock festivals and we talked about are you nervous on stage before a show of that magnitude? Or he's like you know, when you, when you get to that stage, you can only see three rows out.

Speaker 3: 25:00

You can't see anything else it's really hard to when it's that big. It's just such a separation. I mean that's the height of the stage and then you've got this whole mosh pit and then security, and then the back, and also the sound is different, you know, I mean these days it's easier because you get ear monitors, but, um, yeah, it's just, it's a really big wild animal, you know it really is.

Speaker 1: 25:26

Well, you know you yourself. You talked about it earlier. You had a run with bands that were, you know, part of the earlier years, but then you shifted to the writing portion and you started writing for other artists. Do you remember that turning point? What kind of drove the shift like. You went from musician to writer, and you correct me where I'm wrong. Right, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you know spider device, you know. And now and then you start writing like what was the turning point? When did you turn that corner?

Speaker 3: 25:56

device came later. So what happened was I was in Spider, we had two albums out and from those albums I left the band. After the second record there were a lot of difficult things going on internally with the band and also even with the label. So the label was run by two men. One of them was Mike Chapman, who was kind of like you know, ended up being my mentor and he was just. He was very supportive of my songwriting and he said I went to him and I said should I, should I stick this out, or should I? What should I do? I want to leave the band, I don't want you to be upset. And he, he coaxed me into moving to california and he said if you move out here, we can do a lot of writing together.

Speaker 3: 26:36

I, because we had already written one song together which I'm trying to remember the sequence of events, but it became the second single on Tina Turner's Private Dancer, and that all happened, I would say, about a year and a half from when I left the band. We had already cut that song in the band, so there were two songs. There was that, and then I wrote another song called Change, which got cut by John Wade. So those two things happened just as I moved out to California. I mean, it kind of at that point, took on a life of its own. So, like the first day that I went over to Mike Chapman's house to write, he got a phone call from Pat Benatar, and that day we wrote Love is a Battlefield, most of it, okay. So here you are.

Speaker 3: 27:21

Already, you know, within a small amount of time, I mean, I'm getting covers now with some very big artists. Well, tina hadn't put out private dancer yet, so she was, you know, well known with ike turner, but she was just about to come up out with this record which I had the second single on. So at that point I was sort of like, yeah, I like doing this, I think I'm going to keep doing this. And the more I started to sort of get covers and build a name for myself, people started calling me or I would write a song for an artist I had in mind and I was able to get the song to them because I was, you know, creating a reputation as a songwriter.

Speaker 3: 28:02

Sure, those kinds of things are really hard to do. Now, you know, for new artists and everything it's there's so many posses, it's so posse driven and there's so many gatekeepers that keep songwriters. It's almost like the artists are so big, it's like they're up on another planet and they've got these people that are just sort of it's not as organic. Put it that way.

Speaker 1: 28:25

You know. The correlation there, though, holly, is that I hear exactly what you're saying, because probably before you scored a hit or whatever, you never got into those circles with the big name artist, or it was a little harder right, and it was kind of like this podcast when it started back in 21, been going four years now. I didn't always have big name artists on my show, but I've been fortunate enough to have some of the biggest musicians in the world on the show. How, I still don't know, but that's another conversation in and of itself. But once you're in and once people see, oh, you've talked to this person, that person, and then it becomes a little bit more easy to lasso those types of names, and I would have to think that it's kind of the same way from a songwriter's perspective. Is that kind of a fair, a fair assumption, like, once you've written for Tina and Pat, it's probably easier to write for other artists of that caliber, right?

Speaker 3: 29:26

Oh yeah, definitely. Or the artists would come back Like Tina ended up cutting nine songs of mine over the years and yeah, a lot of them like know each other and they talk Sure, like, oh, you write with so and so they still do that. You know. Of course it's a new generation of people that they're you know, and it's you know. That's okay because it's like it's cyclical. That's how life is, you know. You get your shot. You try and do the most that you can and I mean I, I'm still doing all that stuff. But I'm just saying there is, I don't care how big the artist is. They have a point where they have their biggest moments and then it gets really quiet and maybe they have another career built on something else or whatever. But I think it doesn't matter how big you are. You know you can't always be on the top, no, no, unless you're you too or something.

Speaker 1: 30:15

But sure you too is not as big as they used to be interestingly enough, I I had Dewey and Jerry from America on my show just recently and they said you know, they went through this lull for a long time where they were never on the charts. And then you know, now this 75, the Hollywood Bowl 75 came out and they're back on the charts again. So you never, you never know. The artist is always going up and coming down, kind of thing so as a songwriter that happens a lot too.

Speaker 3: 30:44

Where I get a song, it gets recut or reemerges. I mean the song the best that tina did is bigger now than it ever was when she cut it yeah, wow, what a huge song that was.

Speaker 1: 30:54

That's probably the biggest. What is that safe to say that that's probably the the biggest song that that you've written for somebody else?

Speaker 3: 31:02

yes, it's safe to say definitely, yeah, okay, yeah, it's well. A lot of the songs are the gift that keeps on giving, but that was just massive. It's like everybody in the world seems to know that song. Yes, it gets licensed a lot for big things. That's why it gets heard more and more. You know. So, like if it's say, the super bowl commercial or something, something like that.

Speaker 3: 31:25

You know, I just got this new app and that a friend I ran into, a friend of mine who had this app and it tells you all the different sort of statistics if you're in the music business, like whether you could even be a drummer, okay, and if you join it, you put your name in there. It's called muso a1 and I put my name in there and it came back with all these statistics. It just blew me away like I, I have over 2.3 billion streams for just for 2024. If you combined all my songs together. Yeah, I'm in the top one percent. I'm sorry I'm bragging here, but I'm just so proud and it was just. It blew my mind. I had no idea I'm in the top one percent of songwriters, and it's not just songwriters that write for a living it's in the world but but artists so like if an artist like taylor, swift or beyonce is a songwriter.

Speaker 1: 32:21

But artists, so like, if an artist like Taylor Swift or Beyonce is a songwriter, I'm in the 1%, and you didn't understand why I needed more than like 45 minutes to talk to you, right? I mean, let's be serious like 2.3 billion. Let's call them spins, right? That's incredible, and I saw that on your Instagram post, by the way, and I'm like so you saw it yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:38

I did, I follow you and I'm like, so you saw it. Yeah, I did, I follow you and it was like geez, you know and. And then I kind of looked down and saw the whole 1% thing and you got to think there's millions of songwriters out there. That's a huge accolade for you.

Speaker 3: 32:51

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if there's millions, but there are definitely a lot more now than they. Yeah, I mean, you know, if you include, like all the performers, because they're songwriters if they're from you know.

Speaker 1: 33:01

Well, I know 400 right here in the Houston area. So I mean there's a lot of, there's a lot of songwriters out there, for sure. You know. And speaking of songwriters, you know you've written so many hits for artists like Aerosmith, and you mentioned Pat Benatar and Cheap Trick, tina Turner. The list kind of goes on and on and on. But can you walk the listeners through the typical songwriting process for Holly Knight? Is there a formula or are you just an organic? It comes to you when it comes to you.

Speaker 3: 33:38

I think it's kind of all of the above, if that makes sense. Okay, sure, part where the music comes is totally organic and I just sit down, whether it's a piano or a guitar, and I just start playing and I kind of describe it in my book as something. That's like you know that the ouija board that you put, you get that little planchette and you put your fingers on it and it kind of leads you around the board where it wants you to go. It's kind of like that when I put my hands on a guitar or piano, my fingers are kind of leading me. Sure, I'm being pulled by some sort of I don't know some sort of energy. It's a different vibration. It's like if you think of frequencies that are out there with radios, this is just another frequency like another. But I don't analyze and then think, oh, now I'm going to go into the. You know, I just sit down and I just start playing and pulling around and um, but I do also keep a list of titles because I feel like that's a good blueprint, like if, let's say, I come up with a, an idea that's really good, I might then go to my um, my list of songs and see if anything kind of fits with the vibe of that song. And then, once I have a title, it's so much easier to, you know, to write something because you have something to write about. You kind of know that's the. The part that you can't teach someone is where does where does it come up? Where you sit down and it just comes, I don't know. Okay. Then there are other parts where you learn the craft of it, like I've taught master classes where, um, one of the things I've always told people is like you should try and come up with great titles, you know, and some well, I don't write lyrics.

Speaker 3: 35:16

Well, start, you know, everybody has something to say and it's, I mean, it's a little bit more complicated than that. That's like you know, I get it. It would be too much to say right now, but I just I feel I, you know I very, very rarely gone through any like dead line spots in my life where I felt like writer's block, you know. But I have had periods, and one of them was fairly recently, where I just didn't want to play music. I just didn't even want to. I just was sort of, you know, I mean I always play classical because I just love to sit down just for the enjoyment playing, but I didn't really think about the who am I going to write for, or whatever so. But when that happens, I just get creative with something else, like I'm really photography. So I have a photography site and I do fine art, black and white prints and someone said that my, my photography looks the way my music sounds, and I know exactly what they meant by that.

Speaker 1: 36:10

What does that mean?

Speaker 3: 36:11

Well, it's like I like to photograph a lot of architecture and places around the world, but rather than them looking like touristy, they look more like art pieces of okay black and white and just sort of a little more whimsical maybe sure, okay I use a lot of fisheye lens and things like that, yeah well.

Speaker 1: 36:30

From the songwriting aspect, though, what would you say? You're more, and this is probably well. I don't want to answer the question for you, because then it wouldn't be an interview, I guess, but I have to assume. Are you a lyric first? Are you a melody hook? Do most of your songs come from one or the other, or is it a hybrid of the two?

Speaker 3: 36:50

Well, it's evolved over the years. Sorry, I'm sucking on a claw drop here. It sort of changes. It's changed over life. I mean, it used to always be that I started with the music. I still start with the music, you know, most of the time. But sometimes I might be given a project, like for a movie or something, and then I get a script and then it's sort of like okay, then I might write the lyrics first, like when I was writing stuff for, you know, theater also, like you know, music, broadway kind of stuff. I think the lyrics probably came first. But yeah, it's, it's pretty much a hybrid of of both depending on what I'm feeling like at that any given moment.

Speaker 1: 37:32

Yeah, well, you know we. We talked about some of the the big names, I guess the big name artists just a second ago, but I wanted to point out you know a few of the songs that you've written, because I'm sure there's going to be listeners on the podcast that may not associate you with writing, but you know Ragdoll by Aerosmith, that was a big hit for you, right. And I guess the Warrior was a really huge hit. You know that Scandal, patti Smythe and Scandal did, right.

Speaker 3: 38:00

Yeah, in in fact in my book is named the I am the warrior, yeah, and there's a subtitle. That's, uh, my crazy life writing the hits and rock rocking the mtv 80s. So the warrior has. Yeah, who knew? I mean, you don't know when you write these things, what, what the you know what the trajectories can be, but that that has resonated a lot with women women to the point where the term like a women, female warrior and all that it's like it's been overused, like so much. And so I thought, well, do I really want to name my book after that? But that was the whole point that my editor said no, just say I am the warrior, which is a lyric from the, you know, from the song. I wrote the song 35 years ago, before it was trendy, so that's why it's called that.

Speaker 1: 38:46

well, you know, you know you talked about the best by Tina Turner, how, how big that that hit was. You know the warrior was a damn staple song in the 80s, whether whether you listen to that kind of music or not, right? If you turned on MTV, you heard the warrior, that that song was prominent on MTV, right?

Speaker 3: 39:08

So is love is a battlefield. Yes, the battlefield is quintessentially in the eighties. Even the videos, you know, they all kind of mark that sort of early 80s period. You know, Sure yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:24

Well, you know what an amazing pedigree Holly Wow. You know, I think it's important to point out to the listeners that you're not just a songwriter. You know we talked about being kind of an accomplished musician as well, but talk a little bit about your music education. You know, I know you went and you studied classical, but can you talk a little bit about the music education coming up?

Speaker 3: 39:46

Sure, my mother was trying to learn how to play piano and she had a piano teacher that would come over and I would hear him play, and then I would hear her play and she didn't sound anything like him. And then she would go and he would leave and I would sit down and just by ear I would start picking out this stuff. So I think for a couple of weeks my mom ignored me like because she was like wanting to sort of learn piano herself. And then she finally gave up and she asked me if I wanted lessons. So I like jumped, I literally jumped in the air like yes, I would love to take piano lessons. So she found me a piano teacher, like a european, like old school, from you know, she was from yugoslavia, which I guess, is what? Is that croatia now or is that? No, yeah, I think. Yeah. Um, in your right pen names it was Gordana Lazarevic and I just loved her to pieces and I just would get up and practice in the morning before school and I'd get home and I'd practice till dinner. I mean, I played so much, my parents, my mother, would beg me to stop after a while. And then, when I got to Be About Lovin'. I was told by my piano teacher that she was going to go on tour. She was going to do the concert circuit.

Speaker 3: 41:11

So my mom had me try out for the school called Manus, which is sort of like the. It's like Juilliard, but yeah, it's on the east side and it's a much more smaller sort of boutique where, you know, if Juilliard was like the Four Seasons, then this would be like a very exclusive small little boutique hotel. And I had a teacher who was from Norway and he used to drive a motorcycle. I remember he used to dress all in leather and he was bald and he was a brilliant pianist and I studied with him for like another five years. And also, when I was 11, my grandmother and my father took me to the Steinway showroom and they bought me a Steinway grand. Wow, because my teacher, my new teacher, was saying well, if you really want her to develop her skills and the muscles in her fingers, she needs something with a completely different kind of action where she uses her fingers more. So they bought me this piano and I still have it. I write everything on it, really, when I was 11, you know.

Speaker 1: 42:18

And it's a Steinway Grand right.

Speaker 3: 42:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've moved it across the country like four times what a beautiful, beautiful instrument.

Speaker 1: 42:28

You know, I guess, while you know, speaking of the topic of playing instruments, you you talk about the piano, you talk about the keyboards, and it's important to point out that you played the keyboard parts on the Unmask record for Kiss, or a portion of the songs, I think. What? Was there seven or eight songs that you did, or did you do all of them on the album? Can you speak to that?

Speaker 3: 42:51

I think it was about seven or eight. I mean, I didn't. The day that I ended up playing on the record I didn't even know I was going to be doing it. I was sitting in the lounge at the record plant and my band and Kiss had the same manager, bill O'Coin, and we had gotten to know them. My drummer, anton Figg, had played on Ace Frehley's solo record and so we started hanging out a lot and I think I played.

Speaker 3: 43:19

I played on some demos for Gene Simmons who, like only a few years ago, released all these demos on a project called the Vault everything he never released before he released on this, and so we were always doing things, you know, like that and anyway. So I was at the record plant there to meet someone else, so I was going to go out to dinner with him and Gene came out of studio a, I think and he said he said, yeah, I just realized you play keyboards. Would you like to come in and play on one of our songs? We need keyboards on it. That's how like organic it was.

Speaker 1: 43:57

Did he know you for other than just the associate association with bill acoin, did he? Did he know holly knight at that point in time?

Speaker 3: 44:07

well, you know, I'm trying to remember if I played on the demo before or after that, but I honestly can't remember. It was so long ago I should. I should figure that one out because I could look up the date that we recorded and I could also look up the date that he did the demos on this vault project. But no, we were friends at that point. We used to run into him Like we would be at KISS. They were rehearsing. We would run into him at the record plant because we had just finished doing our demo. We had the same manager, so they would come to see us play.

Speaker 1: 44:36

KISS would come, kiss. So they knew who you were.

Speaker 3: 44:38

They knew who holly knight was then yeah yeah, okay yeah, and they're part of my coming of age story. I mean, they're part of my sort of vault into, you know, that quantum leap into the professional world. It was all sort of around that time and I even dated paul for a while. We're still good friends. I'm friends with all of them actually.

Speaker 1: 45:01

You know it's interesting that you said that. You know we talk about the songwriters and sometimes the songwriter is the unheralded person of the song, right? Because we hear these songs and don't realize that. Wait a minute, that wasn't Motley Crue that wrote that song, right? And it's interesting, you spoke of the solo records of all the guys from kiss and specifically about ace fraley, and it was interesting.

Speaker 1: 45:26

I had a guest on my show by the name of russ ballard, and russ ballard is who wrote new york groove new york groove, right. And I'm sitting here talking to this guy and I'm like great writer, I'm just, yeah, I'm just like my, my, my face is in my hands and I'm like it's hard for me to believe that I'm talking to the guy that wrote the storyboard to my life. You know, you talk about songs like winning by Santana. Uh, it's like this whole wow moment that you get like the giddy school girl, like you wrote all of these songs. But how many people knew that? That's the, that's the whole thing. And and not a lot of people knew that russ wrote that song for, for ace.

Speaker 3: 46:04

So they assumed that the artist wrote it. Sure, these days the artist. Like you know, it's even easier to perpetuate that myth because people don't really look to see. Like you know, it's very easy to google and say who wrote this song. Whatever the song is, it's out that you love, or whatever, but they don't know liner notes.

Speaker 3: 46:24

Well, there's no liner notes. Now, yeah, where's the liner notes? I mean there's no artwork for the record cover. There's like basically nothing. It's all invisible.

Speaker 3: 46:34

And I used to love reading the nine liner notes because you could see who the musicians were if they're, if they liner notes, because you could see who the musicians were If they brought in musicians, you could see who wrote what, you could see who produced it, where it was recorded and you'd have special thanks. I was always fascinated with the special thanks, like, oh, who's that person and who's that person Mention someone and you know you would just sort of fantasize about all that stuff. And you know, you just sort of fantasize about all that stuff and that's, that's doesn't seem to be of interest or relevant, which I don't give a shit for me because I've had a great career. I feel for the people that are trying to make it now you know that are really successful and I don't think anybody knows that they've written for you know, whoever it's interesting, holly, I think you talk about things like liner notes and I was the.

Speaker 1: 47:21

I was the liner note geek, like I went out and bought a record as a kid and gave no shits about so much the music. I wanted to read the. I wanted to know those things. Where did they record this? Who was playing, who were they thinking and who was that guy that produced? Like why I geeked out on that stuff. I have no idea, but my head I have this musical savant. I mean I retain so much of that meaningless To 100 people. 99 don't care anything about what's in my head as far as music. Trivia like that, right, but it sounds like that was a big part of you and what you liked about you know the liner notes and the song like that, right, but it sounds like that was a big part of you and what you liked about you know the liner notes and the songwriter thing, right.

Speaker 3: 48:04

Yeah, and it kept everything real. That's when the world was analog, you know, yeah, and then we turned digital. It just set a new standard for everything that's out there, I mean, and now we're entering the age of, you know, artificial intelligence, and who knows, uh, where that's going to lead us. I mean, it's a double-edged sword. There's amazing things that it does, but it's also it's horrible, you know. You know if, if a school is saying, uh well, we're going to teach a course in writing with, with the use of ai, now that it's sort of like when they did social media. It's like everybody can now have a voice to the point where you don't want to hear everybody's voice, you don't want to hear what everybody had for dinner today, all that stuff. It's like it's just an oversaturation of just too much information.

Speaker 1: 48:59

Yes.

Speaker 3: 49:00

And so the things that really are the gems and the pearls of what you should be investing your time in get overlooked. They do.

Speaker 1: 49:08

They do. You know we talked a couple of minutes ago about I kind of spouted off Ragdoll and you know the warrior. But you know, of course this is a partial list of the songs that you've written, just to make this clear with the listeners. There's hundreds more. I mean, how many songs over the years do you think you've penned since you started writing? Have you ever sat down and even pondered that thought? Or do you really have an idea of how many you've written over the years?

Speaker 3: 49:37

No, I do know I had to do it actually because I sold a portion of my catalog and so I had to list everything. And you know, I've read things like where bruce springs springsteen said he's like probably written thousands of songs. I just can't even fathom that because I don't know, I've probably written maybe 400 songs in my career and a lot of them have never been. You know, recorded. I have, like I call it, my, uh, my boneyard. Yeah, the best stuff I've written hasn't been released yet, but I've written it and recorded it well, jesus, a fourth of what you've written has been on the charts.

Speaker 1: 50:13

Though I mean you, you gotta pat yourself on the back and I'm being a little facetious, right, but I mean you've had so many hits, I mean you're, I mean I mean most songwriters would say, geez, if I just had one song on the charts, that would be great. And how many has Holly Knight had on the on the charts over the years? How many? Do you know how many?

Speaker 3: 50:31

It's interesting because I I. I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you there, but no you didn't. I'm a little ADD, so if I don't hold on to a thought, right then and there it's going to fly out of my head, and it gets worse as I get older. So I apologize to everybody.

Speaker 1: 50:44

There's meds for that. Holly, you know there's meds for that.

Speaker 3: 50:47

Oh, I'm on the mall.

Speaker 1: 50:52

I think we all have a little bit of that in us anyway, so all good.

Speaker 3: 50:55

Yeah, yeah, um, I had to when I was doing my book, I had to update my discography and what was interesting, I thought, which I didn't realize, was how many different versions I had of some of the songs. Like for the best. There's like there's so many different versions and different artists and different ways that it's been performed. I mean, you've got tina turner, but then there were there were like three different versions on that show, schitt's creek, and each one of them I mean it's a good song, it's a good song. So they had a one with an acapella group of women and then they did one where noah reed, who is one of the actors on the show, did an acoustic version which they worked into the show, you know. And then there's I've had a version with celine dion and a version with james bay and you know just all winona judd, you know, and it's so when I was listing those things and all the different movies that are in there, then you really get to see the life that it's taken on, you know, and the usage of it.

Speaker 3: 51:56

And I guess I'm lucky, because 80s music, which was like a big part the 80s and the 90s, that I wrote a lot of that, those big hits. Um, I mean, I've always done some stuff since and I've had songs on a lot that were themes to tv shows, and I'm always doing stuff, but the ones that just was my time, whatever style music I wrote, that was a good time for it, you know. And a lot of the songs that are on the radio these days they're sort of like they're written sort of around a track yes, or, like you know, a computer programmer will write something and then they write to that. It's just a very different way of going about it, and so I'm pretty old school the way I, you know.

Speaker 3: 52:40

I think mostly for me it's just I don't, I don't have the temperament or the personality or the patience to play all the bullshit games that go along with trying to get out there and make it through all those gatekeepers. I just I just been doing it for too long. So that's why I'm pretty I'm not great at getting my pushing, my stuff Sure.

Speaker 1: 53:03

Well, I'll have to say like I want to go on record to say and this is just from Randy Halsey right, you've written wonderful songs over the years, but Love Touch for me probably one of the best songs that you've written. And I'm a huge, huge Rod Stewart fan, top five artists for me of all time. I was fortunate enough to have Carmine a piece on my show two weeks ago oh, really yes, and we talked a lot about Rod and his days with Rod and he said, you know, I and I told Carmine the same thing Rod top five, probably top three vocalists of all time, but performers top five. And he said number one for me, by far number one. Yeah, that's pretty huge for a guy like Carmine, with his background, you know, in his pedigree even to say you know, rod was my guy. Like there's just nobody that does it better than Rod. So love that song, love Touch. I think what was that? Maybe 85, 86 that came out Love.

Speaker 3: 54:04

Touch. Yeah, there's a really good chapter in the book. You know, lot of the chapters are about like some of those big songs I wrote and it puts you, the reader, it puts them in the room, like specific things that happen, okay, and um, there's a. There's a good chapter on the rod stewart story, because it's um, well, I don't want to give it away?

Speaker 1: 54:25

yeah, don't, because we want to make people go out and buy this book and read it, right, and that's what I'm going to do. And you know, speaking of the book, we spoke over the course of the interview about your writings of the hit songs and you know, later on, it's only fitting that you write a memoir called I Am the Warrior my Crazy Life Writing the Hits and Rocking the MTV 80s life writing the hits and rocking the MTV 80s. Share a little bit more about the book and where the writing idea itself came from. Did you wake up one day and say I think I need to write a book or did somebody plant this idea? Where did the idea come from, Holly?

Speaker 3: 55:01

I was trying to do a musical like and do sort of like what they call a jukebox where all my songs would be in it, and I hired some writers and it got derailed for a number of reasons.

Speaker 3: 55:11

But, um, then the pandemic came and everybody had been saying for years to me like you should just write a book, because, like I'd be one of those people at the parties that have a few drinks and I'd be telling them these stories and they're like god. Then she's like you should write a book about that. And I was like no, nobody's going to want to read a book, I'm a songwriter. And then the pandemic came and I didn't feel like writing. So I found out what was the best way to go about getting a book. So I hired someone to help me write what's called a book proposal, okay, and the book proposal was 75 pages and you have to write demographics of why you and why now, and you know things like that. So I did that, I got a book agent and he got me a deal and then I started writing it. So during the whole pandemic is when I wrote it with the hopes that after that it would even get made into a movie or TV show. So we're right on track. You know yes absolutely.

Speaker 3: 56:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 56:12

Well, the book came out. What?

Speaker 3: 56:14

Sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 1: 56:14

No, no, no. Finish your thought.

Speaker 3: 56:16

I was just going to say I've never written a book before, so I think when I first started out I was not nearly. I mean, over time it's just like a piece of clay you keep whittling away and whittling away, you turn it in, and then it gets edited, and then you turn it in and then it gets edited, and then you turn it in and it gets copyright edited and then you can, you know, you crew all the photos and then you have to make sure that all the things are accurate. And so it was a. It was a process that really sort of evolved as I was doing, and I think I'm a better writer today than I was when I started.

Speaker 3: 56:50

But I'm also a songwriter, so I wasn't interested in just writing like, oh, here's the facts and this is what happened. I wanted it to be sort of artsy. So you know, I think hopefully I accomplished that because I mean, if you read the reviews, a lot of people say it's well-written, and I appreciate that, because it would be terrible to be a well known songwriter and then it's badly written a shitty book writer, right?

Speaker 1: 57:13

yeah, well, that came out in what it was 23, right?

Speaker 3: 57:19

it was last year it was yeah, it was the end of 23, so they had waited a month. It would have been 24.

Speaker 1: 57:26

So I considered about a year ago, yeah yeah, if I'm not mistaken, the book went to number one on the charts as well, right?

Speaker 3: 57:35

It did In the music. Yeah, in the music category it did.

Speaker 1: 57:40

Well, gee, we should just call you King Midas. Huh, Everything you touch kind of just turns to gold.

Speaker 3: 57:45

It sounds like I hope that keeps happening so that when the TV show comes out that it's popular. You know, I think it will be, because there's some great stories and interesting people and it'll have all my music on it and a lot of people will resonate with that. So, rather than a new TV show where they're making up new music, it'll be songs where people go like, oh, I remember that song. You know the people that there will sort of be nostalgic and miss it. What a great time that was. And the people that weren't there hopefully will wish they had been. You know, because it was. Yes, I mean, I don't mean to sound like an old fart, but wasn't the 80s the greatest?

Speaker 1: 58:30

Well, of course, of course they were, and I mean even the younger kids, like somebody was asking me. I went to see a couple of tribute bands this weekend and somebody was asking me man, what was it like to see all these bands back in the 80s? And it's like I can't even explain it. I mean, it was just like it was so big, you know, it was just over big. I don't, I don't, I don't know how to really explain it, but I'm, I'm glad that I'm a product of the 80s. Like that I grew up. That was, you know, my high school years were in the 80s, right? So yeah, great times for me, for sure.

Speaker 3: 59:08

So many great bands and it was more. It was more rock centric than it is now. So like there was a time when you listen to radio where there was just so much great rock music, Like you had David Bowie and you had Queen and Genesis and just really big art bands that like that. Those days are not not. They're over. I don't know and I don't know if it's going to come back. I mean, there's still some great rock bands out there that I like a good deal, but it's, it wasn't like that was the main genre of music. Now it's just, it's one of the genres. You know. Pop yes, pops way more bigger sort of pop. And rap, although rap is starting to slow down.

Speaker 1: 59:55

Yeah, well, I respect all forms of music but there's I'm a rock pig at a heart, you know I I love the singer, songwriter stuff. I love the country stuff. I love the. I love motown I'm a huge motown R&B but I mean, rock and roll is just rock and roll at the end of the day and that's what I've always gravitated to. Congrats on the success of the book. Look forward to the. You know the program that comes out that follows that. I'm sure I'll be in touch with you somehow We'll get to hear that and maybe have another conversation around that when that comes out. But you know you have the accolades of the hit songs, the book. It goes to number one. We can't forget the accolade that you received back in 2013, and that was being inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame, right? What does such an accolade like that mean to an artist?

Speaker 3: 1:00:51

um, you know I'd be lying if I said that it wasn't important. You know I could be too cool for school and say, oh, you know I'm not into that, it doesn't. It's not that big a deal, but it was a big deal because, you know, the year that I goted there were only 16 women that had been acknowledged as songwriters amongst over 400 male writers and most of them were artists like Johnny Mitchell, who's an artist songwriter. So I felt really sort of honored by my peers. You know, like you were talking about. You know when you have the fans and they're idolizing you, of course, like you were talking about, you know when you have the fans and they're idolizing you, of course. You know that year Steven Tyler, who I'd worked with, and Joe Perry, you know they got inducted. Lou Graham got inducted.

Speaker 1: 1:01:36

Yeah, mick Jones yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:01:37

And I'd written a hit with Lou. Bernie Taupin was there. I'd written with him He'd already been honored with Elton but he was there for some new award and just to be in Sting was performing that night and just be taken seriously by those people and meeting them as a peer boy, that was a thrill. I bet that was a thrill and and I I'm lucky because it's sort of like, you know, if you become a doctor you're always going to have the MD after your name, yes, um, or. Or if you're a lawyer or whatever. This is really nice, you know. People always seem to mention it when I'm interviewed, like Holly Knight inductee Songwriter Hall of Fame, because it is a big deal, you know, it's actually I've heard it's harder to get into that than the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame from some of the inductees that are in both, like Steven Tyler, sure.

Speaker 1: 1:02:29

Well, it's a validation, holly, right? It's a validation that people appreciate your work, right? And for, I think, for anybody you know. Whether you say anybody would say, well, I'm too cool, I don't like accolades. I mean, they'd be a damn liar to say you know that about, especially if your career is based around what you're being inducted for. I mean, that's, that is the icing on the cake, that's, that's the summit, that's the pinnacle of being validated as a one percenter. Right, you said it earlier, you're a one percenter and not everybody's a one percenter at the end of the day. So that's, that's a huge accolade for you.

Speaker 3: 1:03:04

Yeah, and it's nice. You know, it's nice for my family, it's nice for my kids.

Speaker 1: 1:03:08

Yeah, the list of things you do seems to kind of go on forever, which is a certainly an awesome thing, but I do want you to touch on the love and talent that you have and you mentioned it earlier about photography, right, because that's kind of off the beaten path of music. Where did this love come from for you?

Speaker 3: 1:03:32

well, I've always been a very visual person and you know like whenever I see anything I don't, I don't sort of look at it with. I guess my point of view is a little bit more slanted. I look at things differently. So I think being able to try and capture that with photography I just I love that. It freezes a moment, you know, and I love to travel, and it's a great way to sort of take you right back to that place. And then you know the way digital photography is now. You can sort of manipulate it and play with it, which I find, you know the the post-production process to be really fascinating. You know, isn't post-production process to be really fascinating?

Speaker 1: 1:04:10

you know, isn't it amazing, what you can do with all the applications.

Speaker 3: 1:04:13

It's just mind-blowing like I shoot everything in raw and in color. But I have plugins where it's very easy to just convert not only black and white but like a deeply you know, a detailed black and white where you can work and sort of make certain parts of it uh, stick out yes I mean I always thought it was amazing when they were able to do that with the analog cameras and depth of field and all that, those great numbers.

Speaker 3: 1:04:43

But I mean it's pretty amazing what you can do these days with photoshop thinking, even with recording. I mean, I'm, I do all my recording. I have a studio at home and I have a full on HD pro tool studio. I've been doing it for so long that I'm, I'm, I'm good at it. I'm not good at like engineering and miking drums and stuff, but I'm good at pro tools. So I do a lot of, I do a lot of vocals for people where I'll have them sing like maybe 10 tracks and then do a comp. You know some people say, oh, that's cheating, it's like. No, it's not. It's just like you have different takes where you do different performances and you're able to take the best of all of them. If you're doing a good job, you can do it. So it sounds seamless and you would swear that it was one performance.

Speaker 1: 1:05:29

Of course, so I think you said a minute ago that Adobe is kind of your suite of choice for your photos, was that?

Speaker 3: 1:05:37

true, I don't use a lot of them, but I can do film editing, so I'll work with Premiere Pro.

Speaker 1: 1:05:44

Yeah, that's my suite of choice too for the podcast. It's all Adobe.

Speaker 3: 1:05:50

Yeah, I mean, they have some amazing things now that you can do that.

Speaker 1: 1:05:52

I just don't have the time to um learn all of them I was gonna say don't you wish you could really use photoshop to its fullest capability?

Speaker 3: 1:06:01

right, we just scratched the surface yeah, it's all the plugins that come along with it. Yes, like you know, you have plugins in Pro Tools too, and the plugins are sort of like the apps that you use to manipulate, whether it's, you know, the photos or it's art or it's music, you know, and it's sort of like the program itself of Pro Tools is pretty much, it is what it is, it's this, it's all the other stuff that you you use it for exactly so he's a really successful name Chris Lord Algae.

Speaker 3: 1:06:38

I'm sure you've heard of him. He's a he's an award-winning mixer. He mixes a lot of records and, um, he's got a lot of plugins that are named after him. Now, really Okay. Solid State and all these big companies yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:06:52

What's the draw to black and white photography for you?

Speaker 3: 1:06:58

What do you think it is? Well, my favorite color is black. Is there something about Raw? No, it's like, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of um depths to black and white. It isn't just one color, black, and one white. It's a lot of different, you know, depending on how it's filtered and everything. It's just, I think, the simplicity of it. You know, there's nothing nice about being focused on whatever it is, whether it's an architectural building or it's a person or whatever it is that you're trying to capture. It's that less is more, kind of you know thing.

Speaker 3: 1:07:36

But now, because it's digital like if you've seen any of the movies that are in black and white, that are digital, that have been coming out, it's so stark and crisp and clear. You know, like they had that movie, ripley, and then they had the one what was that one with Emma Stone, pretty. She won an academy award for it. It was called pretty, something I don't know. Then there was Roma. Like all these black and white movies, they look so much more startling now than they used to, even when Kitchok made the movies, you know yeah, well, it's, it's.

Speaker 1: 1:08:10

Yes, that's. That's an interesting point. It's kind of like a black and white tattoo, right. It's like there's something that's elegant about that to me, like that pops to my and you think about it. It's like it's black and white, but I mean versus that of color. I I prefer the grays and the blacks and the whites to color and I mean I've got both right. But my point being is there's an elegance to just black and white. I believe that's what intrigued me about asking you the question of why photography and black and white for you.

Speaker 3: 1:08:43

There's something about the simplicity of those things Like it's a good analogy to be is if you write a song, you could write a song with a lot of changes in it and they'd be interesting and sophisticated and maybe sort of that's all that prog rock stuff. Or you could write a song with two chords and the less chords you have, the more you can actually sing on top of it.

Speaker 3: 1:09:03

You're more is better sometimes right, yeah, and it's sort of like the same thing, I think, with black and white photography. I just think it's more beautiful and more whimsical, yeah, but I mean, that's not to say that color isn't just, you know, amazing. I've done that too. I I did a series of shots where I went to holland during the, the time of year when they all go, the tulips open up, and that had to be color, you know, cause that's what it's about. It's about the color.

Speaker 1: 1:09:32

So where can the listeners find your work for photography, Holly?

Speaker 3: 1:09:39

I have a website it's Holly night photocom, okay, and they want to get the book. They can go pretty much anywhere books are sold, especially Amazon. I also did the audio book so I narrated that and that's on Audible. You can get it there. And I have a website, hollyknightcom, and I also have Instagram, so that's hollyknightvision and that'll sort of keep everything. That keeps anything that's going on in my life. I mean, I use it pretty much for professional, you know purposes. So like, whatever's going on, whether it's the series that's getting made or what I'm working on or who I'm working with, that's a good place. That and Facebook.

Speaker 1: 1:10:24

Would you say that Instagram is kind of the tip of the spear for you. When it comes to social media, though, which do you gravitate to?

Speaker 3: 1:10:33

I don't really gravitate to I mean, I have to force myself to do it but I would say probably Instagram. I just gave up on Twitter after.

Speaker 1: 1:10:41

It's interesting, right, it's a. It's a different animal in and of itself. I'm with you. I have a Twitter page, but it was, it was. It was the first one that fell off for me. It's like I can't keep up with all of these necessary evils I've got. I've got to focus on one or two, and so Facebook and Instagram were were it for me, as like X or Twitter, twitter, whatever it's called today, like I just I don't know, I couldn't get into it for whatever reason. I tried, but nevertheless, what's coming up for you that maybe we didn't talk about? You know, we talked about the book, the songwriting, all the things, the production coming up. Is there anything else you wanted a voice to share with the listeners that maybe I wasn't didn't do enough homework to figure out on my own? Maybe you want to share something with us?

Speaker 3: 1:11:31

Well, I do have a group called the Terrible Truth, which is all amazing women, and it's kind of like a situation that the members come and go so that, like, any number of people at any given time will be performing or recording in that band. It's kind of like a co-op, if you will.

Speaker 1: 1:11:54

Interesting Okay.

Speaker 3: 1:11:56

Yeah, and I'm producing all of it and writing the music, but I'm taking my time with that. Other than that, you know, I'm just really sort of focused on what's going to happen with this series and just writing like I usually do and enjoying life, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:12:08

Yeah, any idea when the series might come out, like this year, next year? You don't even know that information yet. Yeah, hard to say Well, holly, listen, this has been a treat. Thank you so much for you know all the messages. You know we shared a lot of messages back and forth, so thanks for your patience there and, you know, thanks for the time to chat. It's been enjoyable. I wish you continued success as your journey continues.

Speaker 3: 1:12:35

Dana, I have to thank you for hooking us up.

Speaker 1: 1:12:38

I love her.

Speaker 3: 1:12:38

I love her too. She's one of my.

Speaker 1: 1:12:40

What was the connection? Just real quick. What was your connection with Dana? How do you know her?

Speaker 3: 1:12:51

Well, she knew of me and I knew of her back then, but we never met. She always jokes and says it's a good thing we never met because we probably would have gotten in so much trouble together or killed, gotten killed together or something.

Speaker 1: 1:12:59

She's got some stories. I can promise you that I played golf with her about a month ago and her and her husband, charlie, they're wonderful people. So anyway, I'll make sure to let her know that that we spoke and, um, I wish you continued success, you know, as again, as your journey continues, and best of luck with everything you do now and in the future. And I asked the listeners to check out Holly's website at wwwhollynightcom and follow her on all her social media handles. So, holly, thanks a bunch. I also ask the listeners to like, share and subscribe to the podcast on Facebook at Backstage Pass Radio podcast, on Instagram at Backstage Pass Radio and on the website at Backstage Pass Radio dot com. You guys remember to take care of yourselves and each other and we'll see you right back here on the next episode of Backstage Pass Radio.

Speaker 2: 1:13:51

Thank you for tuning into this episode of Backstage Pass Radio. Backstage Pass Radio. We hope you enjoyed this episode and gained some new insights into the world of music. Backstage Pass Radio is heard in over 80 countries and the streams continue to grow each week. If you loved what you heard, don't forget to subscribe, rate and leave reviews on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback means the world to us and helps us bring you even more amazing content. So join us next time for another deep dive into the stories and sounds that shape our musical landscape. Until then, keep listening, keep exploring and keep the passion of music alive.