S4: E16 - Jefferson "Zuma Jay" Wagner - Surf, Sand, and the Marlboro Man

Zuma Jay Master

Sun, May 21, 2023 10:48AM • 1:56:59

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

fire, malibu, years, surf, call, guess, skateboard, work, wetsuit, california, house, move, talk, texas, car, sharks, interesting, marlboro man, marlboro, sheriff, Woolsey Fire, California Fires, Zuma Jay, Jefferson Wagner, Jay Wagner, Mayor of Malibu, Malibu California, Surf Shop, Zuma Jays Surf Shop, Korn, Freak on a Leash, Tom Pettet, Grammy Award, Grammy Award Winner, MTV Award, Pyrotechnics, Special Affects, Book Author, Sailing, Surfing, Backstage Pass Radio, Backstage Pass Radio Podcast, Music Interview, Interview, Randy Hulsey, Randy Hulsey Music, Randy Hulsey Podcast

SPEAKERS

Randy Hulsey, Adam Gordon, Zuma Jay

Randy Hulsey  00:00

Hey you guys, I will be treating you all to a bonus episode today. So we will be going a little off the topic of music but I know you'll find the interview to be quite special. It's Randy Hulsey here with backstage pass radio. And I ran into today's guest in Malibu a few weeks back, doing an interview with Bethany heaven stone, the bass player for the Graham bonnet band while I was in town. And we spoke at a cool surf shop on Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu, and it wasn't until after I got back to the hotel in Woodland Hills, that I found out who I was chatting with, I can assure you all that you won't want to miss my in depth conversation with Jefferson, Zuma J. Wagner when we come back.

Adam Gordon  00:43

This is backstage pass radio, the podcast that's designed for the music junkie with a thirst for musical knowledge. Hi, this is Adam Gordon. And I want to thank you all for joining us today. Make sure you like subscribe and turn the alerts on for this and all upcoming podcasts. And now here's your host of backstage pass radio, Randy Halsey.

Randy Hulsey  01:12

Jay, welcome to the show, man. It's good to see you.

Zuma Jay  01:15

Oh, thanks for having me. And nice to see you after our last few weeks of missing anybody from Texas. I'm glad to hear back from it. Yeah, right

Randy Hulsey  01:22

on and it looks like you're still in the shop right now. So you You haven't even gone home for the day. Have you

Zuma Jay  01:28

know, I'm here till closing. And then after closing, it's the paperwork.

Randy Hulsey  01:34

That's the worst part of it. Right. The paperwork is always the worst part of it.

Zuma Jay  01:39

Yeah, the government wants to help me out with the taxes.

Randy Hulsey  01:42

Well, of course they do. Well, it's good to see you, man. You know, like I said, my brother and I had a nice little chat with you back in February when we were there doing some interviews for my podcast, and it's a treat to have you on with me today. So I don't know if you remember the conversations, but I'm gonna give you a trivia question like right off the bat. And I have to ask you, if you ever found the right color of blue paint to paint that handicap logo in the parking lot,

Zuma Jay  02:12

I have I've been instructed by the authorities that the just Unruh Act, or disability, and I have the proper blue, it's in a Pantone blue. And I have the proper numbers finally,

Randy Hulsey  02:26

nice. So there's actually an official name for that that blue and we won't get into the detail of what we're even talking about. But I thought that was funny that that I even remember you telling me that story. And we were all my brother and I were just like, What are you serious? Like, what what? That's so crazy. But yeah, so I guess the first topic should probably be since we're kind of talking about the shop. That's where we met and Zuma Jays surf shop in Malibu, California. I mean, you're going on, like close to 50 years in the shop. Correct?

Zuma Jay  03:01

Yeah, that's, I've been retailing in the shop for almost 50 years. Okay. Wow. Shaping and fabricating surfboards from scratch. In the late 60s.

Randy Hulsey  03:11

Well, that's a long time to be doing, I guess anything. And it's it's interesting, because you've been successful there in Malibu, but you were born up in Palm Springs if my readings are correct, right?

Zuma Jay  03:27

Yeah, about two and a half, three hours east of Malibu is Palm Springs, and very desert dry community, and was there at the Palm Springs desert hospital. And now that hospitals even been dismantled in a new input up, that's all.

Randy Hulsey  03:45

I mean, even five years things just change sometime. You open that shop in what was it? 19. What 7475 Somewhere around there.

Zuma Jay  03:56

I just did got out of college, graduated from University of Pacific up in Stockton, California, kind of a western town kind of thing at the time. And I had already had the name and now I opened the shop and 75 at the location which was on Zuma beach. And then in 79, I incorporated okay, I started selling more than 10 T shirts a week. I figured there'd be some lawyers. So better get incorporated. So yeah. 79 When I started here,

Randy Hulsey  04:28

okay, well, it was now that I think about it, you know, I kind of write this little outline for all the guests that I have on my show. And I do that because I'm getting old myself and I can't remember what I want to talk to people about some time. But I also want the show to flow you know, and not get off, get off topic, but I don't think I had written anywhere in the outline now that I think about it. To ask you what Zuma meant, like us Texans have no idea what Zuma Beach is. So it's interesting to find out from you that It's actually a beach in California, right is where Zuma came from. That's correct.

Zuma Jay  05:04

In fact, there's some music celebrities that have named their children after Zuma beach and a list celebrities in your industry. But Zuma Beach is north of the store about five or six miles. It's a three and a half mile long beach. It's very sandy. And it looks like something out of a Florida movie scene. But it's been there since the mid

Randy Hulsey  05:29

60s. Okay. And is this considered a good surf beach? Or not so much known for surfing?

Zuma Jay  05:37

Now zoom is known for the wonderful beach. Okay. wants to learn to surf, like just struggling to go straight in. Okay, not with the wave. You just go straight in on the Whitewater. I got a lot of people getting taught how to surf Adzuna. Yeah. Okay. Well, that

Randy Hulsey  05:54

makes perfect sense. And if my memory serves me correctly, I guess back in 7075 ish sub seven, you know, 7576 Somewhere around there. This is when the skateboard craze started in California with the famous Z boys, correct?

Zuma Jay  06:15

Yes, Z boys. They were in Santa Monica and Venice. And down in that area. Mark was another community just right next to Venice, where they started in the empty pools.

Randy Hulsey  06:29

That's interesting. But and they started out as a surf team, did they not?

Zuma Jay  06:34

They served and skated, okay. On both the both the pools were had water in them that didn't get pumped out. And they became mosquito nests. They made surf. Okay. i And they got smart enough to sweep and clean in the deep end. That made skate.

Randy Hulsey  06:53

Interesting. While I was you know, even being a Texan, I remember that whole California craze back in the day, and I really followed it closely, even though I mean, we rode skateboards as kids, but I mean, it was a phenomenon going on out there, correct it. But did you ever come from the skateboarding side of the house? Or did you not ever mess with the skateboards?

Zuma Jay  07:18

Oh, no, I had skateboard since I was they were steel wheels in the 50s. Okay. However, what changed it and made it so popular was the complexity of the wheels themselves, they became clay wide wheels, and then and then the 70s that's when that proliferated was that changing and moving toward better wheels and trucks? I have happened, that's when the skill level got better. And the ability to go down into the pool and come up and do all these and yeah, the stuff that skateboarding is about now. Sure. Clay wheels, and everything became urethane.

Randy Hulsey  07:59

Yeah. I remember having this little cheap skateboard as a kid and in the trucks. The trucks were about this wide on that thing. They barely even stood the wheels barely even stuck out from the sides of the skateboard. And then I remember, you know, that was like a little plastic skateboard, right. And then there was this whole wooden skateboard with the grip tape on top. And some names that come to mind are like Santa Cruz and GNS and a lot of these skateboards and I wanted to mow yards and get one of those great skateboards that had trucks about this wide on it with the really cool wills. Right.

Zuma Jay  08:39

Another person that implemented all that was Powell Peralta, yes.

Randy Hulsey  08:44

Yes, yes. And I and I was going to mention him in just a second but I know the surf community is probably a very tight knit one and I'm gonna assume that since you were down there in the 70s I mean, you have to did you know some of these guys from what became the Lords of Dogtown like Peralta And Jay Adams and Peggy okie and any of these people on the on this effort team?

Zuma Jay  09:12

Or did I met them all at one time or another? Because I was from up here in Malibu is north of Santa Monica Venice and marvista Why hung out up here with my crowd and they were down there and their crowd another individual that was part of both worlds was Alan Sarlo. Okay. He's known as a que and he was part of the skate crowd with the that group down there and served up here, okay. Out of intermingling. But they had their their stomping grounds and we had our surfing grounds.

Randy Hulsey  09:46

Okay, that makes sense. Was it like a like what you would think of as a gang like was there? Did you intermingle in the circles or did you stay your distance from from one another? is was it that kind of thing back in the They,

Zuma Jay  10:01

we stayed separate with our own groups because you're very, you know, friendly with your neighborhood. And you never want to go down to somebody else's neighborhood and act like a jerk. Sure. Most of the solidification of the gang mentality occurred between people who lived in Malibu and the people live in the San Fernando Valley called valleys. Okay. In fact, an old surf punk song was written about, I'm a valley, okay? It was, the orientation was either you're from the beach, or you're from the valley, and the two don't mix.

Randy Hulsey  10:37

They don't intermingle. Right. There, it's us in them is what they say us in them. Well, it was interesting when we were there, I saw either I saw a picture of this or the wetsuit was still in your shop. And you can educate me along the way, and correct me where I'm wrong, because I won't have every fat correct about you. But I wanted to talk about the wetsuit with stripes on it. And the reason I want to talk about that is Texas is not known as as a surf state, right. And there's people that go down to Galveston and in along the Gulf Coast, and people try to surf the waves are probably a little lacking. But for most of the people that might listen to this, they're probably non surfers, so to speak. And I wanted you to share the story about the wetsuit with the rings on like, what was it from the knees down or something if you could share that story. After I started reading about that, I found that very interesting. So I wanted to bring that up with you.

Zuma Jay  11:41

Well, that the you mentioned it, it started back in the 70s when I did some extensive sailing on the yacht Blackson, which was a 75 foot IOI racing boat. And that's a sailboat that races. And we were traveling to some very exotic spot where there were no hospitals and no medical facilities whatsoever. And there were no cell phones, there were no sat phones, out in the middle of the ocean, if you had an injury, you are going to die. So when we went to some of the exotic islands, I had a very light wetsuit that I had spray painted the stripes on to look like a sea snake, which is this the the actual bad guy to a shark. The sharks only natural enemy is the sea snake and the sea snake lives in the southern hemisphere, and maybe the latitudes of southern Texas, northern Mexico, down to Argentina. Interested in the sea snake SeeSnake is what I replicated with the paint job on the legs. The kids posted that years ago here at the store, they said hey, look at this old wetsuit has the stripes on the legs. The idea is that the sharks don't see colors, but they can see patterns. And the pattern of the sea snake, which is yellow and brown or yellow and black is an alarming thing for a shark to see. If I put them on my legs, which dangle over the side of the surfboard, while you're waiting for the waves. The shark approaching me would say, well, that's not something I'm going to eat in vector and other direction and it worked very well.

Randy Hulsey  13:17

So I guess there was never, never any shark attacks. You never experienced any of that. Right? You got we didn't. Yeah. And I saw, I saw you had both your legs when we were there. So so that was a pretty ingenious idea there. And is it safe to say that that's something that you came up with? Or did you? Did you come?

Zuma Jay  13:36

I definitely came up with that way before anybody had ever thought of it in the, in the shark world, or the research scientists that started in the 70s people that go to those areas that can put on the light wetsuit do color their legs and patterns that the sharks are not familiar with interest gone further than just the stripes? I did.

Randy Hulsey  13:58

Okay. You know, what I find a little interesting is that, I mean, before I saw your, you know, wetsuit with the yellow rings on it, I had never seen that before. And again, I'm not I don't profess to be a surfer or in that community at all. But I look at just about every surfer, you know, like, we stopped. Where were we? We were not too far from your shop there on PCH. We'd stopped there was probably about 30 surfers in the water. And none of them had anything like a ring on their wetsuit and I'm thinking, if I'm getting in the water, and I might be dinner for a shark, I would gladly wear something like that. And I was surprised when you mentioned it, that more people don't wear that or do they? Do they just not give a damn or they don't care or what's the deal or

Zuma Jay  14:52

the deal is if you're certain surfing, or scuba diving in a shark infested area, where the sharks are are the main predator, you'd probably bit want to do something different, so that you don't appear like a seal. Yes, that's a favorite food of the sharks, for sure. Probably we're at Surfrider Beach was just down the street from here about eight, nine yards near the Malibu Pier. And there's no sharks there. There's just no predatory sharks. There may be some sand sharks that are bottom feeders. And occasional tiger or leopard shark, but they're all feeding off the bottom. Okay, great. White is the one that feeds off the surface. Okay. And we don't have those out here. We do. It's a big deal, and everybody gets pictures of it. But if you served in shark infested water, you should put those rings on as you call them rings. We just call them stripes,

Randy Hulsey  15:44

Stripes. Okay. Yeah, I like to refer to them as the proper term. But yeah, that makes perfect sense. And I guess as a surfer, you're kind of up on that you know about the different areas and the different types of predators in the water right? Or you're kind of dumb to be go out there and, and put yourself in harm's way like that, I would think,

Zuma Jay  16:05

well, if you look at Florida, where most of the shark attacks happen, it's warm water and surfers out there in the boogie boarders are not wearing wetsuits, okay? Are they're just wearing a jacket topper a vest top. or so a little warmer. And so they're surfing and booking and in water, we see them all the time from the helicopter shots or the drone shots. Looking down and there's sharks 10 feet from these guys. Yeah. Hello. To you like food. In California, it's different. It's the seals that are the food and they're black. Yeah, wetsuits are black. Sure, a little bit of local knowledge helps you overcome that being a food, you know, sources? For sure, plenty, there are a lot more shark attacks. And if people were to start wearing the stripes, or rings from their knees down, there would be fewer of them getting attacked.

Randy Hulsey  17:03

That makes perfect sense. You know, while we're on the whole surfing topic, and well, I have to say also that for the listeners that they won't see the video portion of this. But Jay and I have the same exact just about the same exact shirt on almost the same color. Right Jay? This was kind of a brownish color, but I'm repping the Zuma Zuma J shirt here that my brother and I picked up some merchandise from a store there and Malibu so good call. I mean, you look great and yours and I look great mine. So there we go. We're the spoke that Zuma J spokes people here tonight,

Zuma Jay  17:42

as it appears if they were seeing this on video, I'm older. I'll say wiser. I don't know. Sure. I'm sure. Security has been washed a lot more than yours. It definitely has color. It's called mustard, mustard.

Randy Hulsey  17:58

Okay. This whole show will be an educational thing for me. So, in your own opinion, what are the top three surf spots? If you were to pick the top three surf spots in California? What's your opinion on the top three for you?

Zuma Jay  18:15

There are two of them are in Southern California and one of them is in central California. So if they look at a map, you have several spots down in the San Diego San Clemente area, and one of those is called trestles trestles. The next good spot is the one right here in Malibu Surfrider Beach, the one that you have visited. And then the other good surfing spots are in central California. It's also known as the ranch the Hollister ranch. Okay. Northern California has some good spots too, but it's cold and deep and dark and Sharky. Okay, I'll just stay central in Southern California for my serve. Yeah,

Randy Hulsey  18:58

for sure. And if my memory you know, this is natively a music podcast, and if my musical memory serves me correctly, there was a song written many years ago called surfing USA, and I think trestles is mentioned in that song, if I'm not mistaken, and I think quite a few California beaches are mentioned in there Santa, no free sunset, Pacific Palisades. Like they're all in. I guess they're well, he does mention why AMEA Bay, which is a California, I mean, a Hawaii spot, but

Zuma Jay  19:31

that's interesting. I and everyone that's in that song and popular spots today.

Randy Hulsey  19:39

Absolutely. Absolutely. And then if you were to take that question a little bit further, and say, top three, top three surf spots in the world, what what do you think they would be?

Zuma Jay  19:51

Well, there's a ranking and Malibu is number one. Now Surfrider Beach, for the quality of the wave and the length of The way the longer ride that you can achieve at no point down to the pier. But there are spots in the world that have better braking and larger breaking waves. And the news media usually tries and finds out where those are right now, in hosta gar in Portugal is where the biggest waves occur. But the best surfing waves that we're familiar with in the news media is are in Hawaii. Okay.

Randy Hulsey  20:27

And I found it interesting because I traveled to a wahoo some years back, and it was in the summer time. And we went over to Waimea Bay because, you know, we've always heard ooh, that's the surf Mecca. You know, everybody has to surf over there. And I looked out there and it looked like a lake. There was no hardly any waves. But I didn't realize that it's the winter time is when the really big waves happen out there. Is there truth to that? Or is my are my facts off a little bit on on the winter be in the bigger waves.

Zuma Jay  21:01

Facts are right on. The waves in Hawaii are generated by storms hitting the island, from the north and from their Westie orientation is hard to explain. But the islands are can set waves from any direction. Okay. us directions are the ones that hit the North Shore of Hawaii. And that's where you were? Yes, in the summer. There's nothing there. Everybody leaves Hawaii and comes to California in summer because we get these in waves in California and summer. Interesting. Goes to North Shore Hawaii for waves in the winter.

Randy Hulsey  21:40

Okay. Well, that makes perfect sense. You mentioned earlier that you sailed on a rather large racing vessel. And I guess this was back in the 70s. Correct. And you sailed literally sailed around the world. Was it on that particular boat? Talk to the listeners? A little bit about that experience? And what were you doing at the time on the boat?

Zuma Jay  22:05

Yeah, I had brought a little 22 caliber rifle with me. So we could plank. The yacht Blackfin was an IR boat international offshore racing boat. 75 feet is big for a sailboat back then. And even today that's large. It had sleeping facilities for 12 to 14, there were seven, eight on the crew. And I put 26,000 miles on that vessel, sailing through the canals, and experiencing a lot of the world. I did it off and on, I would come back and bow would move to one place. The owner, the new owner of the boat, wanted to visit, say, Galapagos when they didn't allow you to go there now that you can go there. That was one spot he wanted to see. We also spent some time in Panama, extensively in Jamaica, we spent a couple of weeks in Jamaica, which is the same ocean that shares Texas. So he traversed the planet as he saw fit because he was wealthy. And I was just one of the crew members. Okay, a good time on it. And I got to bring my surfboard along. And that's part of the the abilities of Mike knowing the boat prior to his purchasing it. He said, Well, we'll take Wagner along because he knows the boat. Okay, so I paid my tuition, by knowledge. Interesting. Got to bring my little 22 rifle and my surfboard.

Randy Hulsey  23:33

That's very cool. And where do you learn to, to navigate such a vessel like that? Like, where did you get your education from on that? Had you always sailed as a as a young kid growing up into your adult hood? Or did you go to school for that talk to the listeners a little bit about where somebody gains the experience to sail around the world. Sounds crazy to me.

Zuma Jay  23:56

It starts with starting out on a small sailboat and then moving up or going to your local Coast Guard Auxiliary and taking the classes there. Back then the navigation was done by stars and radio frequencies, RDF radio frequencies, there was no satellites up in the space to paying off of and no satphones As I mentioned earlier, so you had to navigate with Establisher and a sextant. And you learn that in your coastguard class it's free to do it. But you better have that knowledge before you leave the coastline visual of a coastline because once you get up there, latitude and longitude is what it's all about. If you don't know your latitude, longitude New Greenwich Mean Time, the time of Greenwich Mean Sure. Then you're gonna get lost and it won't happen today because every most everybody has a boat that has a picture on it. Sure. Satellite somewhere in some airliner will fly over eventually and Oh, there they are.

Randy Hulsey  24:56

It's not like Gilligan's Island anymore. Is it?

Zuma Jay  25:00

Those were the 70s Yeah, right. I currently have a sailboat now it's called a Cal 25. It's a sailboat small as four berths on it one toilet. And it's a fun little boat to keep and own and it's manageable cost wise.

Randy Hulsey  25:15

Okay. And do you get out on it much anymore? Or not so much?

Zuma Jay  25:20

out since the fire? I haven't been on the boat since the fire. It's my time has been consumed with trying to rebuild my home. Yeah.

Randy Hulsey  25:27

Okay. And we'll talk a little bit more about that here shortly. But I just to kind of switch gears a little bit over the years, you've, you've authored several books, and I wanted to touch on the topic for just a minute. As a kid, did you love to write Where did the love for writing or storytelling come from for you?

Zuma Jay  25:47

You take classes in high school and you take English class and you take writing classes. And that gives you the perspective of reading other authors. And you replicate other authors in some way or another. And that makes it easier on you as a person. My first book was about riding the rails. Western rails have we call a train Hoppy, you call it hobos about that with a couple of a list actors, Ernest Borgnine, one of them, it's called King of the Northwest. And that's what moving around on the rails was about my first book. The second book was my book about sailing called the armchair adventurist. And the copies of that are still around. Third book is the wax book. And the book I'm writing now about my military experiences is called merchant for the military.

Randy Hulsey  26:39

Interesting. Well, I saw the names of the books, the hobos handbook threw me off a little bit, because I had, of course, I haven't read it, because I just found out about it. But it's interesting to find that that that's about train hopping. And what's the backstory on train hopping? Why would somebody train hop

Zuma Jay  27:00

to move from one place to another? Are you somebody my age at the time, high school college age, you hopped it, just a hop it the train goes up a big grade, it gets real slow, easy to hop, and you get on it, and you just sit in the boxcar or on a flat car. And there's so few people on trains now. But back then there were four people on a train, if you got up on the middle of it, you'd never be discovered, right? Move up and down the coast, from California to Oregon to Washington, wherever you wanted to go. I just never went east. Because it was dry and dusty, and just wasn't as cool as traveling on the West Coast.

Randy Hulsey  27:39

That makes sense. And I guess it's basically like hitchhiking without ever even having to raise your thumb up. You just hop the train and nobody even knows you're on there. Right?

Zuma Jay  27:49

That's the way it is. Even today. It's still that way.

Randy Hulsey  27:52

Were there ever any travels, like and maybe I've watched too many movies over the years but traveling in the undercarriage of a train without actually getting on the train. Is that possible to do that? That would probably be uncomfortable to do that I would think but

Zuma Jay  28:08

it's possible to do you better be secure. You better know how to lanyard yourself in there. You better make sure you don't hang yourself dragging on the bottom of the train. Much easier to get on a flat car, okay, and lay down flat on the flat car and enjoy the weather. Sure, boxcar that was the best because then you were protected from the weather. And you were protected from the wind and people don't realize when you're traveling at 5560 miles an hour and open surface area. It gets cold. Yeah, on a warm day. You can get cold. Yeah, for sure. I always chose boxcars. Okay, where can

Randy Hulsey  28:46

the listeners find these books at the hobos handbook armchair adventurous. And then the other one was called surfboard wax a history. Correct? Are these Amazon audible purchases that people can go out on Amazon to buy? J?

Zuma Jay  29:02

Yes. The latest one, the one that was written in 2008 or 2010. Somewhere in there that's on Amazon or, or, you know one of those sites you can get on it. The other books were self published. They were proving ground books and the hobos handbooks already been ripped off authored by somebody else. The armchair adventurers somebody will capture that and rip it off again. You know, rip me off on that one. That's okay. Our life. Most of my 1000s of copies were burned in the fire. I have several 100 of the armchair adventurous left here at the store. I give them out to people that are collectors. I can republish that one. And writing the rest of Western rails. I could republish that because I have some of the originals still left. Okay. The wax book is sold by the 1000s because it's more popular. Sure, or the history. It's in the Library of Congress. But the new book is a nonfiction it's about my operations on military bases as an opposing force coordinator. Okay, that will be out by the end of this year and as the same publisher as the wax book.

Randy Hulsey  30:13

Interesting. Okay. Well, since we're on that topic, I did have one question and I asked a guy after we left your shop in Malibu, it seemed like we had stopped stopped by one other. We saw a shop leaving to head back to Woodland Hills, and we went in there just to look around. And they had a bunch of wax in the in the case and I was asking the guy about, you know, waxing a surfboard versus what you would put on a skateboard, what we call griptape. Right? Why is the wax better for a surfboard than say something like a griptape?

Zuma Jay  30:54

Well, we do have derivatives of griptape called stomp pads sculpt. The reason you can't put something as rough as a skateboard material from a skateboard on because it'll wreck your wetsuit and it will wreck your skin when you pop up. Okay, suit is laying on it as you're paddling. Yes, you're gonna have a wetsuit on like you're in Hawaii, you're paddling with a bare chest, or maybe a vest, and the wax doesn't damage your skin. And the wax doesn't damage your wetsuit. Whereas those grip tapes on the top of skateboards, they'll eat you up in a minute. It's like

Randy Hulsey  31:33

sandpaper letters. I mean, that's what it is the sandpaper, right?

Zuma Jay  31:37

You know, it, he's it. Yeah, that's what, so we don't use it in the surf industry, we use a stomp pads, which are similar, but they're softer material. They're spongier and they don't damage your wetsuit or your needs.

Randy Hulsey  31:49

That's cool. I, again, is I like learning about this stuff. Because it's, again, I'm I've mentioned it earlier, I'm not a surfer. So it's just things that we don't think about and but it all makes perfect sense. You have been referred to over the years, I believe, as the savior of Malibu. In your own words, why are you referenced is this? Where did this come from?

Zuma Jay  32:18

Yeah, a number of articles have been written about my activities. When I was mayor here and council member, that's an elected position. And we do it every four years, just like the big national elections and the the idea of being the saviors. It's just it's not just me, it's a number of people in Malibu here that are convinced that big building these mega homes, like movie stars and move here do and the billionaires that move here are not what's going to keep mouth Malibu. Malibu's name came about because of people like yourself traveling through an interesting time ever meal. Say I saw it, I liked it. Where we're losing the charm of Malibu to our the very elite people that move here now. And they have their elite attitudes. And they tend not to participate in politics of the city. And they just want their fortress, their 15,000 square foot fortress. And they don't want to mingle with the commentary. So when I was on council and mayor, I promoted better land use and smaller, sustainable homes, which was not popular among a number of people. Because here they are mega mansion in Malibu, and here's this mayor, dude that acts like a surfer, you know, cred, and who's here to pontificate about what size home we should exactly. It kept what got those rich and made a movie star and music people here was the fact that we had a modest community where you had an acre property or a two acre property and a three to 5000 square foot home. That was fine. But it's all changed and I was opposed to that change.

Randy Hulsey  34:09

Okay, that makes sense. Now, you mentioned that it was two terms that you serve. So you were mayor twice for for the city of Malibu, California.

Zuma Jay  34:19

Yes, that's were termed out after two terms. I served my two terms. Gotcha. Now I'm done with that part of politics.

Randy Hulsey  34:27

Okay. How does a surfer or or a sailor or, you know, you've done all these things. How does one go from that? Or go from the waves to public office? Why politics for you? I guess that was you. You kind of mentioned it, right? Like was that the reason why you got into that to try to stop some of those things from happening to Malibu. What you knew was Malibu.

Zuma Jay  34:53

Yes, what I grew up with, as Malibu was a rural area, with space between Holmes, and very little crime. And as time went on these, these properties became so valuable because the music industry and in the hall in Hollywood came here to get away from downtown Hollywood and Hollywood, West Hollywood, and they wanted out of that scene. And once they become very successful A listers, they can afford to move out here by a couple of homes, knock them down and put up one monster home. Yeah. So I was a sheriff for a couple of years here. And I dealt with him as a sheriff, you know, regular duty sheriff. And I got to experience some of that. Do you know who I am attitude? And when I pulled celebrity X over with their driver, or whatever, and they'd say, Do you know who I am? And I would simply say Not until I see your driver's license registration and proof of insurance. Thank you.

Randy Hulsey  35:55

Right? Yeah, that is that holier than thou attitude that some people like to possess That's appalling, to say the least

Zuma Jay  36:07

relevant out here. And I just bring them down to reality. I just simply say, you have all the human functions that I do Absolutely. Much, much wealthier than I will ever be. And you do have influence in your industry, the music and entertainment industry. But when you get out in the water, we're all equal? Absolutely. You can't out pat on me Don't talk. Yeah.

Randy Hulsey  36:30

And that and you're not above the law, either. Just because you have a large bank account, right? That doesn't that doesn't buy you. You know, it doesn't get you out of things that are lawful or or unlawful. For that matter, you have to follow by the same laws that everybody else does.

Zuma Jay  36:47

In your world, but in the real world, just like,

Randy Hulsey  36:51

yes, yes. Well, you talked about the A listers, or the movie stars kind of migrating out to the Malibu area. And that kind of segues me into kind of another talent that you have, Jay, you have, you're a man of many talents, for sure. But you have another talent that keeps you busy. And that's stunt work and special effects in the film industry. Talk to the listeners a little bit about the past and the present, what you have going on and what you've done in and around the music business. Because not many can't say that I've ever talked to an actual stuntman, and it's especially a pyrotechnics. Yeah, those are not just people that you run into every day. So I'd like to hear that story. How you got into that and what you were doing with it?

Zuma Jay  37:40

Well, you said just a moment ago, a man of many abilities or capabilities, it's, I call it a man that needs an income because the surf shop revenue, my net revenue out of here is appalling. It can't even pay to have full time employees here. So I delved into stunt performing, because I had some capabilities on the water. So I started out in movies that were water movies, and got my name known around in the stunt industry. And then when you get older, you don't heal as quickly. A little more cerebral and I got an explosives and firearms license so that I could work in the entertainment industry. So I had done a number of videos, because most videos are non union and you need non union personnel to work on them. The union that governs our activities is the IRC ay ay T SC. Association theatrical stage employees. I'm a member of I IATSE local 44. But prior to that, I was doing a lot of the music videos when the 80s and 90s were just slamming with music videos. So I had done some very famous celebrity A listers videos, and they still play him to this day and I still see him and the kids. The young kids the 20 year olds can say I saw that one. That was great. I saw that. So it's not Western, about the closest to Western I ever got was doing some of Tom Petty's videos. Okay. Finished one couple years ago for Bob Dylan. So I've done videos for some people that sing the Western slang, but most of it is the Rock and Roll stuff, okay. In gay videos, I did huge videos. And I did some videos for the surf punks, which was a group in the 80s and 90s that had some following. We did a concert in Hawaii with Joan Jett, forerunner and Charlie Daniels. And we opened for them and got a good deal of experience in the music videos. In fact, I worked on one in 2000 Go which got a Grammy for Best special effects it was the corn video KR m sure. Got the one On the day I worked on and did the special effects for the Grammy was freak on a leash. So the Green Day videos, I got the MTV award for that their best MTV for green day walking contradiction. So these videos are great videos, you can look them up a plan and songs are okay. Maybe not for somebody in Texas. But on the West Coast, they're still accepted. And there's a good deal of income for me. So I kept doing special effects. And now I work on feature movies. And I do a lot of it to the military.

Randy Hulsey  40:38

Okay, so two Grammys then to your name. Is that Is that correct?

Zuma Jay  40:44

One was a Grammy and one was the best, best video award from MTV.

Randy Hulsey  40:50

Okay, that's the bucket of popcorn award, right? The MTV had the popcorn award or something like that, if I remember correctly, it's, it's been a long time. Since I've watched MTV because MTV is not music, television, as we knew it back in, you know, what was at 81 when it, you know, came out and just the whole video thing went wild. It's not the same anymore, but

Zuma Jay  41:15

they're about to be sold as well. MTV is along with a couple of other network type plant platforms are about to be sold. But MTV in the 80s and 90s was big time.

Randy Hulsey  41:27

Yeah, for sure. Will you know, from stunt work to pyrotechnics, that's, I mean, you're going from the fire to the frying pan. I mean, you're not looking for something easy to do. Jay, you're you're you're in these high risk things, you're swimming with sharks, you're doing all the things that most people stray away from, but in the I guess in the famous words of what was the movie Fast Times at Ridgemont, high, Jeff Spicoli said danger is my business. Right? And that sounds a little bit about you've kind of made danger your business over the years. It sounds much like Spicoli there.

Zuma Jay  42:06

Yes. Or Robert Duvall in one movie. And his great line, Charlie don't surf. That's it. That's it Apocalypse Now. Great movie.

Randy Hulsey  42:17

Absolutely. Well, was it really just the money that got you into the stunt work? Or were you kind of a daredevil growing up? And it was a natural transition for you to move into that? Or was it just like, Man, I need some money. And they they need somebody to go fall out of a building. And then you went and showed up and you got the job is but how did that come about? For you? The stunt work,

Zuma Jay  42:41

stunt work in Hollywood, I'm on the west coast here. You get into it by knowing people and having a good say a history of doing the stunts to get into the stunt industry. I did it because I needed people that were specialized in water stunts, and fight type scenes and all and knew how to use an airbag. So I had an efficiency already going for me just by doing the surf and the sailing stuff, which made it an easier entry for me into that industry. And the special effects came about because I had a lot of firearms licenses, okay, that on the sets as well, they needed armors on the sets. And part of the being an armor is knowing about the special effects, the squibs and the explosives. So you just transition from one to the other. Once you're in there, you're pretty well safety by requirements by the licensing from the DOJ and from the ATF. Okay, so with those licenses, you can pretty much go anywhere you want and do whatever you like, with a permit and a paycheck. Yeah.

Randy Hulsey  43:55

Is that a pretty small community of people that have all of those things to be able to do what you do or is there? Is it more popular or are there more people than most would think that are able to do that kind of work.

Zuma Jay  44:09

It's very time consuming to earn the licenses. You just don't go out and buy them you earn the licensing. You come a special effects one card in California, which is the most respected, explosive license that you can obtain. It takes a minimum of six years of experience and training as well as testing by the State Fire Marshal's Office. So getting into that is limited by your time that you can do it. So it's like you have to almost become a doctor of explosives.

Randy Hulsey  44:39

Yeah, you dedicate your life to it almost right? Correct.

Zuma Jay  44:42

Right now in the state of California. There are about 101 card operators, maybe about 80 to 102 card operators and the three card which is the lowest entry level card there are about 300 of the three cards. The only person in Hollywood bid has the machine gun license, the assault weapons licensed sawed off shotgun license, the short barrel rifle license, and the 50 caliber machine gun license with a pyro one card is me. You're talking to him, I'm the only one with both the highest gun cards and the highest effects cards. Most people go either into effects or firearms. Wow, I vote. When I'm gone, there'll be no more with both cards in their name.

Randy Hulsey  45:27

Is it impossible to get these days? Or what? What's your thoughts around that? Because you mentioned that you would probably be the last to ever get it? Is it just a dying thing? Or is it just too hard to get?

Zuma Jay  45:40

It's both of those. And I hope somebody else achieves both this the status of both of the high cards eventually. So they can just say it wasn't just me. But it getting it getting into that and keeping it is the hardest part. But once your license, Hollywood will find you, the music industry will find you because I need you to get a permit to get the permit, you have to have the license to have the licensee you to get the insurance to get your a list celebrity music or celebrity on the set. You have to have insurance. And insurance won't cover anybody unless the bonding knows about the capabilities of your pyrotechnic operator on your set, or like in what happened in New Mexico, the lack of a proper armor wound up with a dead person.

Randy Hulsey  46:34

Interesting. Well, for all the listeners of the podcast, most of which are going to be music focused here. Here's your guy right here. Whenever you need to do videos and whatnot, you know, you've got to, you can pull the permits, and you have all the requirements and all of that good stuff. So it seems like you'd be a pretty sought after guy carrying all of those credentials. It made me think a little bit about what were what were some of the most memorable movies or events that took place for you from a from a special effects perspective. Was there one highlight in your career for special effects or as it relates to special effects that stands out in your mind?

Zuma Jay  47:16

Yeah, I think the greatest experience I had was uninterrupted eight weeks, and Iceland, the country of Iceland on a movie called Flags of Our Fathers. And that was a Spielberg Eastwood job. And they hired just about everybody in Hollywood was credentialed correctly and took them to Iceland, and they made a $150 million movie that did pretty well. And I tell you, being there in a remote country and doing all of this, that was something that was in my memory for for many, many years, and will always be in my memory. It was a risk blockbuster movie. And it went off with only one broken leg by some extra. But after, you know, if you look at a huge budget movie like that, and if you only got a broken ankle or something, then you did pretty well.

Randy Hulsey  48:05

Right, you're way ahead of the game, right?

Zuma Jay  48:08

I think Flags of Our Fathers is one of my best memories. I've worked on, you know, hundreds of other movies that are just a part of behind the scenes where we're one of the little things that we call behind the scenes player or day player, running firearms or using explosives. I worked on Avatar, the latest avatar, I was armor, working with James Cameron, one of the biggest directors and most successful directors in the world. It was a pleasure because the guy's a purist. He just lets people do their job, brings the cameras brings the talent brings the story and pulls off some blockbusters. And so I was a part time armour on Avatar. And that was a fun show. We shot that here in LA and then the crew went to New Zealand to shoot the other half outdoors. I have I was here for the indoor parts.

Randy Hulsey  49:05

Okay. Was there any way? I'm trying to remember if my memory serves me correctly? Was there an involvement with the Terminator movie as well with you or no?

Zuma Jay  49:18

Yeah, I did a little bit of work with Jovis gozal, who asked them a few years ago because it was miniatures on that. And Terminator people don't realize it but that scene in the original Terminator was a miniature where truck crashes and blows up and those acts take place. So that was a miniature disposal was very good. And he was the operator on a lot of that. So I learned from him about miniatures. Okay. I've done miniature shows where the explosives are just squibs real big bombs. We just use squibs.

Randy Hulsey  49:57

What does that mean? What is a squib for the Non pyrotechnic person, what does that mean?

Zuma Jay  50:03

Well, a squib is what's applied to the human body. Where the the energy is sent away from the actor or stunt player, and it puts blood in front of it or just in front of it or pieces of wood in front of it.

Randy Hulsey  50:17

So like a gunshot, gunshot, right. Yes, the

Zuma Jay  50:21

opposite of the gun going off is what it's the actor and looks like a bullet, or Grey's are shot through a wall. And that's a squib. Okay. They're controlled by the ATF. And you placed them to charges. They're small charges less than a firecracker leaving. But they're used quite often in the entertainment industry to replicate all kinds of effects that are harmless to the actor or stunt player, but look like to the people actually watching the movie. The most squibs Are you have to be a one card to use the squid.

Randy Hulsey  51:02

Interesting. In conversation, I guess. I wanted to bring this up for my brother too. But in conversation in your shop, we spoke about, you know, my brother being a sergeant for the sheriff's office here in Texas. And the connection you guys made was around the fact that you were part of was LA County Sheriff's Office for a number of years. And you served as a deputy, right? Was that for like a couple of two or three, four years? Something like that is what I was reading.

Zuma Jay  51:36

Yes, yeah, I started and I think 87 or 88, you have to go through the academy first. And I went through the academy and Sherman block actually shook my hand and gave me my diploma, okay. At the time, but LA county sheriff is the largest sheriff's department in the United States. And I was a participant for three or four years. Exactly, I'd have to look back at the documents. But I was a reserve deputy level one, which means your post Certified which means peace officers standard of training, I met those capabilities and responsibilities for post certified police officers. So as a level one deputy, you'd have the same authority and same capabilities of any other deputy, but you're volunteering your time, instead of doing it three to five, six days a week you do it once or twice a week for eight hour shifts. And I did it here in Malibu when we had a Malibu sheriff's station. It's long since been disbanded that sheriff's station moved over the hill to agora and we're building a new shade new station out here now, which I was part of when I was mayor, we orchestrated the construction of a new sheriff Station. Here in Malibu, we'll have a full capability, sheriff's station, right in downtown now the rest of the library.

Randy Hulsey  52:59

Okay. Fire Station, what drew you to that line of work? And in the reason I ask is because, and it was probably because of my brother being in law enforcement, that I took an interest in it, and I was going to go through the reserve deputy classes, you know, at the, at the academy and, you know, become deputized, I guess, so to speak, and I and I, where I would have to go to do it was not convenient. As you know, Houston is very big. And if you say you have to go across town in Houston, that could be an hour and a half. And it was it was ridiculous to go over there late in the evenings and come home and it never worked out. But for you, you did that what I wanted to do, but what drew you to that, to that work,

Zuma Jay  53:51

human interest. The town was smaller at the time, the sheriff's department of the smaller at the time. They made it easier for you to get your post certification. The training facility is spread out in LA it's like an hour for me to I would go up to Santa Clarita for some training. And then I would go to biscuit lube training center for other training. So my longest travel time was about an hour, but you could buddy up. You could go with two or three other folks in the same car going through the academy at the same time. Okay, so for us that lived out here in Palisades, or Malibu or Santa Monica, to get in the car and head over the hill to go to the Academy. And the reserve Academy is was only three days a week. You had to give three eight hour days a week. We're doing your training, your PT, your firearms instruction, your mace instruction, and instructions, all the things that you have to do to be a legitimate deputy. You have to learn in the academy. Yeah, you have to go through the academy without it. You just might as well just be a rent a cop. Absolutely. For me, it was go all the way, earn that badge, earn that uniform, and do your community, right, by dedicating yourself to law enforcement in your community. And that's why I did it. I had the time and I had the energy. And I don't know if I do it again. Now, I thought being mayor was like the same thing, I'd be running the town, by the authority elected to me, by the people who live in Malibu.

Randy Hulsey  55:30

Well, it's a different time now, for sure. And I've and I've written many times with my brother over his, I think, almost 25 year career with the sheriff's office here in Harris County. And we, as civilians are shielded from so much, and I'm sure you have stories just in the short three years, but the general public has no idea what these law enforcement people see and deal with on a daily basis. And until you take that ride, you'll never know you think it's a cakewalk. But it's interesting to see that side of the fence,

Zuma Jay  56:10

I believe. So I think it should be required for just about anybody that wants to get into public service, to do a four six hour ride along with your local ad. And experience what it is, it's the nearest thing you have, or some of these TV shows that you watch. But remember, they're being very selective and only picking out the coolest car chasing the best takedown scene, they chase the bad guy down and they strip him and they jump on him and they gang tackle and arrest him and put him away. All that stuff real good. But the rest of it is not what you see on TV. The rest of it is writing the proper ticket informing the general public about proper behavior. reinforcing the fact that you can't walk around and drunk and irritate people. What's been a real cop is that's the guy. Yes. Keeping an eye on the neighbors mailboxes, you know, silly things like that, that you don't realize, yes, sure, the cars are insured. You and I who have insurance on our cars aren't impacted by the guy that doesn't care about insurance on his car. Exactly. It's things that real PD and real sheriffs end up doing. It's not all glorified stuff. Now, for six or eight hours, and you'll see what really goes on

Randy Hulsey  57:29

you can almost see and understand why law enforcement gets so tainted with the I guess just the the human race in general, because they're dealing with, for lack of better term that they're dealing with the turds of society a lot of times and it's not everybody, right? I'm saying, you know, they'll pull over guys like you and I who were speeding, we get our ticket and we move on. But think about all of the stops that they make where there's resistance or, you know, hand to hand combat or a chase or whatever, that stuff that we don't have to see, we don't get to see. So you understand how, you know they they can get pretty down on people sometime because they're dealing with those types of people. And there's a lot of them out there, man. There's a whole lot of them out there.

Zuma Jay  58:23

Yeah, out here. And now we have a new call to arms for us. Where we accuse people of being entitled, oh, you're in Malibu, you must be entitled to be in Beverly Hills, you must be entitled, yes. If you're a deputy or a PD, a police officer, in whatever jurisdiction it is, you don't know what you've got until you know what you've got inside that car. That's right. Answer a call to a domestic violence issue. That's where a lot of shootings take place. You have to go in there with your head square. No mind on that cell phone. Not thinking of the dog. Did he get his home? You know, was food the right food in the tray? When are my kids gonna get back from school on time? You've got to focus. Yes, that is tiring. That's why I say sit in that car for six or eight hours. And find out how tired you are. If you're paying attention as a good deputy or police officer. You're tired at the end of your shift. And you're jaded, because everybody's got attitude. Except the two or three guys like you or me that you may pull over to go Gee, I'm sorry. I was speeding. I'm a knucklehead give me my ticket. Yeah, thank you for yes. Not All Like That. No, not at all. They get the more difficult. distancing, people try and distance themselves from the sheriff or the PD. I used to call it black and white fever. cop car drives by and they look like whoa, what am I doing wrong? What did I do wrong? If you're not worried about anything, you're not doing anything wrong. That That cop car Are is a good thing? Absolutely. Right with one of them?

Randy Hulsey  1:00:03

Yes. It's very interesting that you mentioned, you said ride with one for six to eight hours and you you're exhausted at the end of the shift. And here's what I'll say about that. And you are 100% Spot on. For anybody that hasn't done a ride along with a police officer. I've done many of them. And every time I get home, I am physically and mentally exhausted. And I've never been able to put my finger on that. But you know what I think it's for a lot of reasons. Because your mind is working all the time, you're looking for things that you normally don't look for, you're dealing with people that you don't normally deal with. And I think that that causes probably a lot of, you know, what do you call it adrenaline, adrenaline rushes or whatever, during the course of that shift, which could leave your body feeling depleted, right. And I've never really thought too much about that until you you just said it. But I think there's a lot of emotion and a lot of things going on during that ship, that people like me who are the civilian. We're never privy to that or we don't do it on a daily basis. And I think if you do it on a daily basis, it's the norm. It doesn't wear you out like it would. Maybe it does, right. But I just remember feeling exhausted after, you know, my brother would drop me off to get my car and go home. I'm like, why am I so tired? I just rode around in a car for like, eight hours. What's the deal here?

Zuma Jay  1:01:40

You're using your mind the entire time. If you're sitting next to your PD or sheriff or police officer, Sheriff, you're in a bike seat next to him. People are looking at you like you're undercover where you must be a narc. Yep. And you're looking back at them going, I'm just here on the ride along but you can't explain that no, if brother throws you in the back of the car where the you know, the crime and the criminals are the bad guys. And you have to ride in the back like you do in LA County, the sheriff's put you in the back of the car. Correct. They have to open it up for you every time they get out and they do a search and or whatever they're stopping the cars for. But it is tiring because your brother he may not admit it. But he's got a Sam Brown on which that's his gun belt and sure mace and cofell, this key belt and everything else that goes on as Sam Brown. And that from that point up your body, you know is warm by your vest, you're wearing a bulletproof vest, wearing a full armor, you know, sleeve, cover 100% cotton or something that's not flammable that you're covered head to toe. And when you get out of that car and you have that badge on, everybody's looking at you. And you're trying to figure out who's decent, persevere, who's the bad guy? Who's the person that doesn't even matter. And he's making those assessments. Every minute. He gets out of his car, and he gets out of his little metal cocoon, and he's open to the world. Your mind is going and if you think it's not tiring, something's wrong. Or you think too much coffee.

Randy Hulsey  1:03:19

It's exactly right. I remember Jay I remember one right along the first I think probably one of the first times I ever went with my brother. It was a it was a multi agency grow house operation and and I guess there had been you know, they had been, you know, whatever. I don't want to say too much on here, but let's just say that I was in the front seat of my brother's patrol car. And they have this vehicle I think they called it the bear if I'm not mistaken, but it's basically an armored. It's a Bearcat, a Bearcat it's the armored vehicle with the turret, the gun turret on top. But

Zuma Jay  1:04:05

every big city has one of those. Okay? California out here in LA San Diego, San Francisco. We have one unknown just about every SWAT department as a Bearcat, okay, meaning every big department has

Randy Hulsey  1:04:19

that makes sense. So it would be the first vehicle that pulls up in the driveway of this grow house. And I'll never forget the first one we went to, of course, the Bearcat pulls up and the loud intercom comes on. It's like this like we dive bomb this house and I'm not briefed on anything. I have no idea what's going on here. Right now I'm sitting in the front seat. My brother of course is out of the car kind of behind the car. They don't know if they're going to be met with resistance. And next thing I know I hear this, this bang and this bright flash a lot ate inside the house and the only thing it was, I guess a flash grenade. You know, they do that to stun whoever's in the house or to catch them off guard. I had no idea I thought that they were just a gunfight was fixed in the breakout and here I am in the front seat. I don't have anything but my fist to fight with right and no gun at the time. I later became a handgun carrier. My getting my ch l but at the time, I didn't have anything but you know what I could find in his car, maybe a pencil to stab somebody. Wow, I had no idea what was gonna go on in that situation, right?

Zuma Jay  1:05:36

That's saying you had were your two feet.

Randy Hulsey  1:05:39

Run the opposite way. Right?

Zuma Jay  1:05:41

Find the car and run. But then hopefully they'll none of the other deputies or police officers think you're one of the perpetrators? actly. Exactly. So what they threw in that house was a flashbang. Yeah, that's kind of the demarcation for most police departments or sheriff's departments to say, we're active now. We're here. Bring it on. Yeah. You got to get behind something. Your brother was probably behind his vehicle behind the Bearcat. And because he was in uniform, they let other officers in heavier uniforms go in first. Okay.

Randy Hulsey  1:06:14

So I found that all interesting. And I said next time, can you at least brief me that something's fixing the blow up inside the house. And I could kind of be prepared for that. You know, just a little warning, as I'm not asking for a lot here. Just a little warning. We'll have all the things that you've kind of done over the years, one of the I guess, cool things that I found this interesting, and I'll tell you why. So I was a cigarette smoker. Almost all my life. And I kicked that habit. Probably I don't even remember now probably at least eight years ago, maybe maybe more like 10 years. But I was always a marble smoker. And when I found out that you were actually the Marlboro Man. I said, Wow, I'm gonna talk to the actual Marlboro Man. Right. So I was wondering if you could share that story with with the listeners kind of how that came to be. And what did that mean to you back in the day, you know, cigarette ads were huge back in the in the day, and I don't know what yours that you you carry that title of Marlboro Man. But you don't see those types of ads anymore. Share your story about the whole Marlboro Man experience with the listeners if you'd be so kind.

Zuma Jay  1:07:33

Sure, yeah, it was a terrific experience. I got to travel through the West, the United States to almost every really cool school. Some of the most dramatic landscape that I would ever experience, I would not have that ability to do it on my own. We were financed by Philip Morris. Parent Company. The ad agency was out of Chicago, Leo Burnett. So it was quite an experience. It's important to remember though, that there were three Marlboro men at one time. They had the Marlboro Man for age groups. So advertising takes place in ages between 20 and 3030 and 40 and 50 and 60. So at the time, I was Marlboro Man, I was the guy that was the 40 year old Marlboro Man 40 to 50. An old fart and not the young one. But that is how they advertise in print. In the commercials, which were black and white in the day, I was about 10 to 15 years old. I was not the guy. I was a Marlboro Man from 87 to 93. Okay, maybe 94 I had seven years and it paid for my house in Malibu. That's how lucrative the project was no good. Was it was a good pay. And CO routine. Miller was a photographer Renny Sally was a photographer. So they had different photographers for different times in the ad campaign. And for different backgrounds in the ad campaign. Barbara was also coming out with a clothing line called Marlboro classics, which was clothing. So they were morphing from cigarettes into clothing. And I was that guy at that time. I got to travel to Oregon, Washington, Utah, Idaho, Dakotas and Montana, New Mexico and Arizona. I would never have seen all those states. And I not been in the Marlboro contract. And what an experience it was. We did have to take care of our own horses when the horses were in the scenes. That was not a big problem for me. They provided the saddles so they moved the horses all we had to do is pretty much keep them clean, keep them happy, keep them used to us. Sugar Cubes here and there carrots You're in there kept the horse on your favorable side. Okay. People don't realize that the cigarette was never actually smoked in those ads. The penciling in by Scitex Sitex, is what you would call now is called post, they would put it in post. So the cherry the red part of the cigarette and the smoke, we're putting in posts so that you wouldn't have to worry about that on out on the field trying to get the smoke to go the right way and the cherry to lift the red end of the cigarette. Right? Yeah. You just held the empty cigarette.

Randy Hulsey  1:10:35

Interesting. So

Zuma Jay  1:10:39

great experience, great paycheck, got to see the western US I would never got to experience that ever. And even in my private civilian life. Now, I could not afford to take that time to do it, or getting paid to do it. I tell you, I'm a happy guy.

Randy Hulsey  1:10:55

Right on? And was this something that at the time, in the years that you mentioned, that's all that you were doing for for income was that you weren't like working at stump work or anything like that? Or were you doing that kind of all at the same time.

Zuma Jay  1:11:14

All of it at the same time. hX at the time for the modeling contracts, the stunt jobs, you just pretty much took whatever came to anything that was put in front of you and you found a figure figured out a way to do it. The Marlboro contract was about I'd say 40 to 70 days long. But you could come back and forth if you weren't needed for a couple of days, you pay for your own flight. So don't jobs are commingled with, you know, the production's way ahead of time, you know, weeks ahead of time, maybe months ahead of time when you're going to be working, okay? Having the Sheriff's Badge at the time being a reserve, that was fine. I could tell the sheriff's department I'm going to be gone for a week and not go on the on the calendar for a week or 10 days. Okay. You had to do one day a week or four days a month. So all those things commingled well, and you I was active, I was moving all around. And here at the surf shop at the time, I can hire people that could stay a week or two at a time. And now we can't afford it because people want so much nobody wants to work anymore. No. It was a lot easier in the 80s and 90s.

Randy Hulsey  1:12:35

For sure. And we're all of those ads. Were they all kind of the Western cowboy looking ads with each of the age groups that you spoke of, or did each age group have a different I guess facade or or image so to speak? Or was it all that cowboy on the horse kind of look and feel?

Zuma Jay  1:12:59

Yes, that was indicative of Marlboro ads was the sole individuality, meaning the black and white TV commercials and going to color print ads, ads that appeared on the internet, that kind of thing. That soul image, the horseback image was very Marlboro. Later on in the later ads and the ads in the 90s in the 2000s is where the image was portrayed. They move forward with Marlboro which was a my clothing counts. My hat counts, okay. I image in perspective to other people. Count. I mingle with somebody at the bowling alley who's smoking guy at the drag races. Who's smoking? They don't have you with a tennis racket in a Marlboro ad. You don't see him with a golf club in a Marlboro ad. So Leo Burnett, who I don't know if that's still the company that does it, but at the time, that was the main pitch company. That's what they went with. And that was very successful. So why

Randy Hulsey  1:14:09

change? Yeah, no pun intended, right? Well, I guess being the Marlboro Man back in the day was like someone referring to you as the modern day John Dutton of Yellowstone right there was this image that John Dutton of Yellowstone he's a he's a cowboy guy and no kind of bullshit kind of guy tough you know looking guy

Zuma Jay  1:14:33

we're constantly that's worked out very well. Yes, it has that sidebars going other little dumps before here is it is after. If you look at it, the yellow stone is kind of like the Western of Avatar. Really big success. So yeah, I wish the guy success. He's he's actually a nice person. I've met him in person. He's like he's Not all of you know, full of himself.

Randy Hulsey  1:15:04

Okay, humble guy,

Zuma Jay  1:15:06

just a regular. Um, he's working and he's making good money.

Randy Hulsey  1:15:10

He shares Yeah.

Zuma Jay  1:15:13

takes care of his crew. So,

Randy Hulsey  1:15:16

and he's a very talented musician, too. You know, he's got that going for him as well,

Zuma Jay  1:15:21

too. And I heard it and I go, okay, that's actually decent. Yeah, it's like, oh,

Randy Hulsey  1:15:25

yeah, you know, it's interesting, because there's quite a few celebrities, Hollywood A listers that have gone down the whole music path. You know, you've got Kevin Bacon. That's big in the music scene right now with his brother, the bacon brothers. I think Kiefer Sutherland is as a musician. You know, of course. Costner there's a lot of them out there Johnny Depp, you know, they're all they're all tied into the music scene. And different, you know, different forms or fashions. But back on the the whole marble thing. Were you ever actually a cigarette smoker, though?

Zuma Jay  1:16:03

No, I never smoked a cigarette in my life.

Randy Hulsey  1:16:05

I thought I thought that I had read something about that, which I found interesting. But then it also makes sense. We you you were talking about, you know, the cherry part of the cigarette and you know, doing the smoke, smoke post production or whatever. That makes perfect sense. So that's that's kind of kind of funny that the Marlboro Man never smoked Marlboro cigarette, right?

Zuma Jay  1:16:27

Well, I'm sure Darrell or some of the other Marlboro guy personalities that were before me. He passed away about 10 years ago. He was a smoker. Okay. Some of them did smoke. Okay. Some of us didn't. I don't think the current Marlboro guy smokes at all. He was an athlete. Very interesting.

Randy Hulsey  1:16:52

Well, I guess it's an image. I mean, you are a model right at the end of the day, and you're portraying whatever.

Zuma Jay  1:16:59

He has a model. You just got to kind of sit there. I did. Ralph Lauren, three years. That was polo clothing line. I did Polo. I did it and I got such a portfolio of print ads. Okay. With every major campaign, I was least in it once or twice.

Randy Hulsey  1:17:21

What a career. Well, I wanted to shift gears one last time on you're in, in, you know, in different parts of the country. Each part has their own, I guess, natural disaster stories or natural disaster phenomenons that they're known for, you know, of course, there's Tornado Alley, there's the gulf coast, where I live is, you know, famous for the hurricanes coming through. And of course, California has is known a lot for the mudslides and the fires. And I would like for you to talk just for a second about a couple of the fire stories. I know you've been through quite a few of them out there. But can you speak specifically to the canyon fires? I think that was around 2000? What six 2007, something like that. And then the Woolsey fires, can you speak to those two fires, because a lot of listeners, you know, I get a lot from Houston. And fires like that are not a thing here. So I don't think people understand the magnitude of what these things are and how devastating they can be.

Zuma Jay  1:18:34

Yeah, that's our big thing that we have to discipline ourselves about here in Southern California, earthquakes and fire. So I relate a fire of the significance of the 93 Malibu fire the 2007 corral fire, which was also Malibu corral Canyon. And then the biggest one in LA County history, the Woolsey fire, which was 2018. So those events are catastrophic for homeowners and property owners and business owners. Because everything is consumed. So in your neck of the woods, you have a hurricane that comes up into the Gulf and it eats away at Galveston or whatever. Towns are along the coast of Texas. And you see what goes on in those hurricanes or in or in the tornado alley. And the devastation takes place in towns and communities and cities. And everything's wiped out. It's all gone. And I feel so much more passionate for the people that have hit by hurricanes when hit by hurricanes and tornadoes. Now, because I watch it on the news, and I say those poor folks now I say those people are hammered. And I can relate because I lost my home. In the 2018 Woolsey fire the 93 fire we lost 325 Homes in Malibu, these are expensive homes. And I participated in that by saving a firetruck at local station 70, which is an LA County Fire Station. They were out on duty doing what they could do. And somebody had left in LA City Fire Truck at a very famous celebrity's home a list music person and run toward the coast to get down to the beach. I hooked a fire truck up to a water source at the individuals pool and saved that truck and then move back down to my store here on pch and guarded the store from the fire in the corral fire, which was corral and lat ago in 2007. We only lost 53 homes. Once again, these are expensive celebrity owned homes. And in the 2018 Woolsey fire just in Malibu 772 homes in the 90265 area code 16 110 structures altogether. And that started way over in Simi Valley, which would be a fire that leaves Houston and goes to Dallas. I mean, it's just nuts, the size and acid. Yeah, hundreds and hundreds of 1000s of acres burned. When you hear about fires, and in Texas or Colorado, Arizona, Arkansas, those fires are usually brief. And they're caused by another event, a hurricane or a tornado. And they're brief these lasts for weeks at a time. And they burn everything right down to the summit. So in my case, I lost a collection of firearms, and a whole lot of my binary explosives, which I use on military bases. And it all melted, burned and just turned to nothing. So I lost my income and my home. But I wasn't alone. A lot of A listers lost their homes to Miley Cyrus lost hers. Neil Young lost his so it doesn't, doesn't discern who you are know, you're gonna burn. And it's real tough. And I have so much more compassion for the people in the Midwest. Now, when I see those tornadoes, just I sit there now and I have a lot more a deep feeling for their losses. So out here, it's the same thing. It's just a fire. It'll kill you just like a hurricane or a tornado. And I was hospitalized. And it was not fun. But I defended my house for 10 hours until I ran out of water.

Randy Hulsey  1:22:45

I saw some pictures yesterday, my wife Terry had pulled up some pictures, we were over for a visit with my mom and dad. And we were talking about this interview that I was going to do with you. So we were there yesterday. So I'll be talking to Jay tomorrow night. And one of the things that I wanted to talk to him about was the fires. And I said we've never been through that we and Terry went out and found some pictures and stumbled across me actually Miley Cyrus's home being burned down, you know, the fire going up the palm trees. And I said, Could you imagine just sitting there watching your place, every thing that you've worked for, and that you own is in that and you just watch it go before your very eyes, it's got to be it's got to be horrible. It's got to be horrible.

Zuma Jay  1:23:37

Yeah, you have a different opinion and perspective on life. After you have a loss like that, similar to losing a loved one part of your life is gone. You have to overcome it. Do the best you can with the memories of it when it was enjoyable and rewarding. And I tend to look at my loss that way as the benefits of it are, at least I had it. I had the good life I had paid off my mortgage in 2016. And I had two years of a decent life where I had no mortgage and I had a job. A lot of people have it a lot worse sure process of rebuilding rebuild the house like for like plus the 10% that they're giving us his allowance out here. loss. And I'm going to build it on the same foundation and have the same home with the same view but it's just going to be hardened. Just going to have a lot less shrubbery around it and fewer palm trees. And I'm sure Miley's new house and Neil Young's new place are going to be built the same way that mine will be. Yeah. And the next one comes through I'll have a better chance if I'm still alive. Yeah. My daughter has the house if she's gonna live in it. She'll have a chance.

Randy Hulsey  1:24:57

Yeah, absolutely. You miss Shouldn't you know you, you rebuild, you learn things hindsight is always 2020 Maybe less shrubbery and more rocks or something like that for aesthetics. It was interesting to read, and please correct me if I'm wrong, like there was one side of your house. That was very limited on I think it was windows that I was reading in. I think that that was the side of the house that faced Santa Ana. And there's something about the Santa Ana winds. Can you speak to what I'm referring to about your house and the Santa Ana winds? And what do they mean, in this whole conversation around the fires? Hopefully, my question makes sense to you.

Zuma Jay  1:25:48

Sure. It does, and anybody that's in a neighborhood, in Southern California, here or in Northern California now with all the fire prone areas, as well as Texas and Arizona. Out here, the Santa Ana winds are winds that occur between October and January. And they're usually between 45 and 75 miles an hour. And they come from the north, west or northeast, depending on where the wind is headed from and it goes toward the beach. So my house correctly only had two very small windows aimed in that direction. That's why the house lasted for so long. I have a lot of footage. I can mail email you the footage, there's 42nd 46 Second, in wishes, you can see the flames going over the house with me with a hose defending it. And a nine hours later, all the houses in my neighborhood. There's a 22 second video from a drone type operation and a camera held by Candace. And it shows every house in the neighborhood gone and we're still walking on ours, it's in total perfect condition. Wow. So it's all about the Santana's and having that wall of stucco or cement aimed toward those Santana's and in your view windows away from the Santa Anas. Because that's what gets you those embers come by 5060 miles an hour. And anything that stops him they they are just like when you blow on a campfire. And you make someone bigger. Yeah, put wind on it, put a fan in front of it and thing just goes off just gets bigger. Unbelievable. And that's the same thing with the Santa Ana effect out here in California.

Randy Hulsey  1:27:36

You know was well, I was gonna say it's interesting people, a lot of times here they say you know, category four, category three Category Five hurricanes coming in, get out of town, and some people just refuse to go, you know, they're, they're gonna stick it out. They're gonna ride the storm out, you know? And is it dumb? I maybe not. I mean, I guess DME is all in the eye of the beholder. But there's something about a fire like, like wind and rain is one thing. And it can be bad. I'm not downplaying how severe it can be. But there's something about fire man that when you get too damn close to it. You don't stick around very long. You know, you move and you think about the World Trade Centers when they were bombed. And most people would say, Gosh, how do these? How are these people forcing themselves to jump out of a 90 storey window? And they've said that if you get to a spot where it was to jump out that window or to burn to death, you're you're going to jump out that window every time right? Because though there's something in the human mind that says you don't touch fires, just it's way too hot, you know? So most people would leave you're you're probably and maybe not right? Did a lot of people stick around and try to defend their places like you did or were you kind of the the rebel that was there doing what I mean. I know. That's the way you're wired. And this is probably the way I would be wired to. But did most of the people just get out when things got that bad? Or did they stick around and fire them?

Zuma Jay  1:29:18

in Malibu we had probably about 100 to 150 people that got together, managed to get some apparatus and some appliances that could defend against the oncoming fire because they had fire hydrants nearby. They had flat neighborhoods, they had asphalt streets in front of them where the embers could collect and dissipate. So we had teams of younger people that ran around in groups of five or 10. And they wrote articles about them and various news articles and TV shows that but where I live, everybody ran. But I reminded myself that I had a skill set that many of these people didn't. I am building fires for movies. Sure. I'm buyers for video you understand them? Yeah, standard. And I know what the heat tolerances are. And I know how to cover myself and those heat, heat issues. And I'll try and email you this 46 Second piece where you can actually see me underneath 100 foot flames. I'm not exaggerating, and you see it, you'll just go How the heck did he do it? I cooled myself off laid on the ground and hose myself down and got underneath the truck. And the flames went over us. And my girlfriend stayed in the stucco house until the storm went by then you come back and fight the fire in the hurricanes and the tornadoes those events that I've seen and witnessed them you know on the news perspective in your area, they build up so you have a time to to get out. hurricane comes you usually get a two or three day warning in the Gulf. Get out you see the freeways everybody's leaving some people stay behind they got a basement and the tornadoes their immediate you don't get a chance you know, it's like it's here five minutes you're you're done and gone. So but they do blow by and they spot hit big BAM here they BAM here they skip there. Okay, one town and they're gone. So those are briefer experiences. And you can survive better from the tornadoes in the hurricanes and you can win the fires up in paradise. Just one fire at the same time. The Woolsey was going we lost 86 People in just one fire. So yeah, fire is it's difficult.

Randy Hulsey  1:31:43

Well, how did like the Woolsey fire specifically? Does it eventually just burn itself out? Or were there firefighters that fault that to completion like they were the ones that put it out? How did that go down?

Zuma Jay  1:31:58

Wolsey fire started in Simi Valley, okay on the 18 freeway if somebody wants to Google that, that after they're listening to your podcast, and it went all the way to the coast, it burned all the way to zoom of beach. It burned all the way to LA to go beach. It burned all the way to Broad Beach. It burned to the Pacific Ocean, literally. Okay, wow. The ocean is what stopped that finally just ran out of fuel. The firefighters were impacted by the fact that mutual aid is how California works. So you have fire departments that come in from other areas that have no clue how to fight a WUI fire of wildland urban interface fire where we view UI, they have no clue they get in the way. Yes. They don't know what they're doing in a wildland fire. They're used to pulling up in Houston or Dallas, there's a house on fire or building. Three, there's asphalt, there's a hydrant. They haul out their hoses, they get the occupants out, and they hose it down. This isn't that way. This will take out your truck. This will burn your hoses and melt your windows. So of course, they are not much of an impact on the fire in the Woolsey event and in the 2007. Fire. There were very effective in the 1993 fire not affected. I am a perfect witness when they left that fire truck and they ran to a fire station of what goes on. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a whole different animal. Wow. Well, how

Randy Hulsey  1:33:32

many fires would you say that you've been through? So you're Native, pretty much of native California and you you've been in the Malibu area for a long, long time. How many fires have you set through over over your years and, and Southern California,

Zuma Jay  1:33:47

we'd have to just call the major fires, the ones that make the news. The big ones are the ones that I've sat through. And I've sat through those ever since my childhood. In a community Calabasas and Hidden Hills, those fires would rage through all the way to the beach. So I've been through at least eight or nine events that made national news at least eight or nine in my lifetime.

Randy Hulsey  1:34:14

Well, I guess some people would say, Well, I guess it's all relative, you know, people would say, man, if if your area is known for fires, why do you stay there? And you could say the same thing about hurricanes. You live on the Gulf Coast. Why do you stay there? It's what we call home it's what we know we face dangers we we persevere we would get through things we rebuild if we have to. And it's no different than a fire a hurricane a tornado. Everybody has the at the end of the day. We're all we all seem to be kind of wired the same. You know, why would you stay in hurricane alley if you know her? I mean, tornado alley. If tornadoes go through there. Well, it's home. That's where we live and we're not leaving just because there's Maybe some impending danger somewhere down the line. We as humans, we just don't do that. We don't.

Zuma Jay  1:35:06

And we're geared to look at life, at least at our age, you know, a little more mature. We tend to look at life differently than younger people. We've established ourselves in our homes, whether you're in Dallas or Houston or Fort Worth, and your that's home. And people in the Midwest, in Springs, Arkansas, whatever town it is, it is impacted by tornadoes. And you look at it the way of, hey, the numbers are in my favor. Yes. This mortgage, yes, yeah, and raise my kids and do my thing. And the odds are against me getting hit by that tornado, absolutely. Texas getting wiped out by that hurricane 100%. Florida, they have the same odds as we do hear with, with fire. Exactly. You're living with these natural events that you have no way to control. The same with an earthquake happened last month, or 50,000 people died in an earthquake. They chose to live there. They lived on an earthquake fault. They didn't build correctly, they suffered, they did not beat the odds. In California, we build better when we have earthquakes here. Maybe 4050 People die, or lose a few buildings here and there. But we are prepared for it as best we can. Now we're building against fires. Yes, lean better and smarter. Folks on the coast in Texas and Florida, Mississippi, Alabama, you're going to have to get smarter too, because the natural events are going to become more and more numerous. And your odds for having a loss are going to become greater.

Randy Hulsey  1:36:55

Yes, I agree. But and I think some of these houses are being built to withstand like, 175 to 200 mile an hour winds now like, you know, back in the 70s Yeah, that was never a thing, right? A gust of wind comes along in your house is 700 miles down the road somewhere, you know, but now they're, they're building the structures to withstand a lot of that, you know, we get smarter every day. And technology gets better. And, you know, but they always say you don't ever live in fear, you know, because if you leave Texas because you're afraid of hurricanes, you're just gonna go somewhere else. And there's going to be danger wherever, right? That you're never going to escape possible danger. So you're just going to be running all the time. So you get routed somewhere. And you just do what you need to what you need to deal with. And that's what you call home at the end of the day.

Zuma Jay  1:37:50

All your listeners are going to be impacted by some natural event sometime in their life. Absolutely they will. They have that proximity rule that says one out of seven knows this guy, some actor, I forgot his name, one out of seven, but it's one out of seven, he's going to experience a natural disaster. And they're not thinking about it. Now. They're having a happy time that kids had pizza today. I went home last night, you know, I went out and shot my 22 and hit the target, you know, so it's going to come

Randy Hulsey  1:38:22

it will. It's not a matter of if it's when right. That's the old adage,

Zuma Jay  1:38:28

tell your listeners, just like we did out here. If you make it through physically, the emotional part you will overcome eventually, and you'll be stronger for it. And you'll be wiser for it. And you'll look at life differently and what in education it is. It's not pleasant, but you will get through it. Sure.

Randy Hulsey  1:38:47

And it makes you a better person. I think ultimately, when you you live through hardships like that, it just makes you stronger and better for the for the next thing that comes along.

Zuma Jay  1:38:58

makes you much more compassionate. Agree,

Randy Hulsey  1:39:01

agreed? J where can the listeners find your shop if they ever find themselves in the Malibu area? Where can they physically find the shop? And then the second part of that question is can the listeners go online to purchase Zuma J Gear Online? Yeah, I'm assuming you have an online presence as well. Correct.

Zuma Jay  1:39:27

I wish I had an online you know, it my age. It's hard for me to learn how to navigate on the computers. I mean, tonight was my first time on my podcast, a podcast where there's a Zoom meeting that I did on my own. When I was at the city this the we had city staff that got me online and did all that when I was mayor dude. So we don't have an online presence. You got to come here and take the abuse from the old man. And define the place it's not hard we're across Ostrom, the most expensive successful restaurant in the state of California called Nobu locals out here called Nobu second mortgage because going there will cost you a second really I had no idea number of celebrities go there daily and evening every evening there's a list celebrities their wait time at that restaurant at Nobu is a month to two months if you're a commoner that he can even get in there at all.

Randy Hulsey  1:40:26

So you just don't show up there and walk in and say a table for two right demean you. You have to be on a list to even go there. The waiting

Zuma Jay  1:40:35

list, as I understand it is between six and eight weeks. Nobu Restaurant and right across the street from Nobu. Okay. I across the street from Nobu also isn't McDonald's.

Randy Hulsey  1:40:50

Compare and contrast right?

Zuma Jay  1:40:53

Most part smart people that are going to Nobu eating McDonald's first, you gotta go to Nobu, because we're talking an average bill there for two people's four to 500 bucks.

Randy Hulsey  1:41:07

Wow. So basically eat a Happy Meal first, then go over there and just order bread and water right is kind of the way to do it, right?

Zuma Jay  1:41:15

bread and water is equal to a carwash you know, it's it's wonderful the cuisine is, is impeccable. The the ambiance, the beauty of the place, the quality of the food, the staff, it's all a list. It's five star, whatever. Yeah, it's an experience. Well, you're all the time.

Randy Hulsey  1:41:38

Yeah. And I had no idea of the place that you know, of course, I saw it when I came out of your shop, but I've had not being a local there. I had no idea what it was or anything about it. And it's kind of funny now that I think about it. We went into like three or four shops and down in the Malibu area most all of them's surf shops, right, just kind of spending some time and getting the hang out with my brother in the funniest thing. Every one of them that we walked into. The first thing they said was, where are you guys from? It's like, do we do we just reek of not being from here or what? And I'm sure I was wearing jeans that day. And I'm not sure what my brother was wearing. But I'm sure most Malibu people are not in blue jeans and tennis shoes. Right? So that was probably the first giveaway that we weren't locals to Malibu. So I thought that was kind of funny. But three, three places that we walked in, for sure. So what brings you guys in today? Where are you from this? Like, why don't they keep asking this is do we were doing? Do we read Texas and it's like we hadn't even talked. So there was no accent thing or anything that they could have picked up on. And so I found that kind of funny.

Zuma Jay  1:42:54

Well, you're not alone. When I went to New York on modeling jobs to New York City, they landed in Madison Avenue or, you know, nice hotels in midtown Manhattan. And I would walk around in my jeans and brown shoes and clean T shirts or buttoned down shirt. And I'd be looking at everything right and left and up and down sideways with a big blank look on my face like wow, wow. walked by not nasty. But they would say California

Randy Hulsey  1:43:30

you read of California man.

Zuma Jay  1:43:33

This guy is not from here exactly. reeks of California. Funny. If you're from Texas, unless you're from Austin. You reek of Texas. Sure.

Randy Hulsey  1:43:46

I guess so. I guess I never thought about myself Rican. But I guess I do. You know, maybe maybe there is that? Well, back to the question. So there's no online presence. But were in so you're on Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu. It's hard to miss you. Right. I mean, Malibu's not that big of a city, right. It's kind of hard to get in right there on pch, it's kind of hard to miss,

Zuma Jay  1:44:13

or whatever called Downtown Malibu, which is south of the pier. Across from the Nobu. The mall that you went to is a very popular mall for tourists cruise through. And it's not popular with their wallets, because once they see the prices there, they get sticker shock and they come down this end of town where the prices are more modest.

Randy Hulsey  1:44:34

Yeah, man, you you had some good deals on shirts. And they're like, when we walked in, there was some shirts in there for 10 bucks. And I kind of I didn't say anything to my brother because I was expecting to pay like 50 or 60 bucks for a shirt in there. So So Zuma JS has some great stuff, and at very affordable prices. And I was also going to add to that by saying, you know, you you guys and Khalil Fornia it's unbelievable. Like what we we take things for granted like, you know, a gallon of gasoline here and Texas I just filled up the other day for like, two to 68 a gallon. And, you know, the places that I stopped when I was there were five, five bucks, they're like, double is expensive, right. Real Estate's you know, through through the roof. It's like, how does the average man you know, say a kid, that's 25 starting a family making, you know, 70 $80,000 a year? That's good money for that age, right? How do they? How do you afford a $2 million mortgage? You know, I'm in a 27 square foot home five bedrooms with a swimming pool, and a huge yard. And my mortgage is a fraction of what people in California people would in California would probably pay $5 million for the house I'm in in Texas. And I can tell you that my house is under $500,000. Mortgage wise, it's crazy.

Zuma Jay  1:46:08

The cost of everything out here is predicates, how close you commit to the coast. So a house of 2700 square feet like you have there with a pool and nice yard. Something out here like that is in the minimum million, 2 million and a half anyway. Yeah. farther east, you go from the coast to San Bernardino and Riverside County, the bigger counties, the homes are more affordable. Okay. Cheap homes. They're the cheap homes and those counties. Two and a half, three hours from the coast are still four to 900,000. Yes, that'd be a million, but they're close to it. Yes. How does a young person afford that mortgage, I don't often give you the downpayment. That's the only word

Randy Hulsey  1:46:57

God Almighty. I remember being up in the Silicon Valley, I was coming out of the San Jose Sharks game. And I remember coming out of the arena one night and I was waiting on the person that I was riding with, and I was standing by the rent car. And in the car park, just next to us. I looked inside of the car, and there was a flyer on the seat. And the flyer I guess they were in the, in the market of buying a home or looking at homes. But there was a flyer, and it was a house that was 1200 square feet. That was two bedrooms and had this little postage stamp size yard, right. You know, the yard was just tiny. And the house was like 50 years old. And it was like $800,000. And I'm like, good God Almighty. That's crazy. Like an old house. It almost looked a little dilapidated, right. It wasn't just a nice fancy brand new home by any stretch a little bit of yard. And I'm like, Oh, my like, I don't know how people are they? I mean, I guess a lot of people just have to live in debt. Right? This is basically what it boils down to. They have to

Zuma Jay  1:48:17

you You live with your debt. As I mentioned, you know, I paid off my mortgage two years before the house burned. But that's how it is out here in California with Northern or Southern California. You live with that debt. If you want to live out here and own a home here. It is expensive. There's no doubt about it, you're not going to get what you're gonna get in Texas, or Arizona, or Nevada, you're not going to get that quality of a home for that kind of price. Sure. Three times what you did for your home. It's three to four times more for the same thing here.

Randy Hulsey  1:48:49

But there's a beauty to California man, you know, you you got to give props where props are due. And there's there's a reason why and the beauty of California, especially there where you are along the coast is just absolutely breathtaking. It's a beautiful part of the country.

Zuma Jay  1:49:06

It's why we strive to protect it from overdevelopment. And that's why I always Mayor twice

Randy Hulsey  1:49:10

makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense. Is there social media that if somebody was going to go look up zoom or js and get some information, do you have a Facebook page? Does the store have any kind of social media presence at all? It may

Zuma Jay  1:49:28

it may have social networking, I'm not familiar with it, okay, because I'm a different age group. And I I actually let the kids that I shouldn't say kids, I let the college students from Pepperdine University, our local university who work here, when they're on schedule, and they're working here. They're welcome to do social media and help the store out. The only thing I'm aware of that we have is something called Yelp. Okay. The Yelp things people say where Okay, yep. So we're okay. I I call Facebook faceplant. I call Twitter tweaker. I call tic tac, tic tac toe. Because it's, it's addicted. So I don't follow social media, okay. You know, this, like I said, this is my first podcast that I actually did on my own. without prompting from some city official

Randy Hulsey  1:50:28

will, you've done a magnificent job, I have to tell you that we had our wires crossed a little bit on the time which that happens. But from a technology standpoint, Jay, you've done an absolutely remarkable job on your own tonight. So kudos to you for getting on, I see your nice looking face there. It's been enjoyable. It's been an enjoyable chat. So I appreciate you, you jumping on. And I know the whole social media thing, man, it's even at my age, it's a necessary evil being a local musician here. In Texas, it's do it or else. And luckily, I don't make a living playing music, I have a full nine to five job that has been very rewarding to me, over the years, information technology. But you know, if you want to be relevant in anything, you just have to have a social media presence. So I'm on all of them. I'm on the tic tac toes and the tweakers and all of that crap, right? Again, it's just a necessary evil, and you have to do it or else, you know, unfortunate thing, but it is what it is.

Zuma Jay  1:51:38

I have got you by a few years and age. And as you mature, and you become wise, like this old curmudgeon that's speaking with you now. You'll see that has less and less value to you.

Randy Hulsey  1:51:50

I agree. I agree.

Zuma Jay  1:51:51

If I was 22, to 35 years old, I would probably be very concerned about my lack of skills and social media. But at this point, I'm happy with my position good. I don't care what people think of me. I just don't give a s I'm gone through life. I've experienced a great deal of thing, many things. I'm willing to share that with people. But I would rather do it face to face, or on a Zoom meeting like we are here. Sure. than we've been on a keyboard. I agree. A two inch screen, I rise on those two inch screens.

Randy Hulsey  1:52:30

Well, what I can tell you, Jay, is that had I known that we would do this interview, I had carried all of this podcast gear to LA and had I know we were going to do this at the time I traveled out there, we would have done it right there in your shop with two microphones across the tables, you know, like, like we would have done it 30 years ago, right before all of this zoom technology. Because I think there's a there's a lot to be said for relationship building and just sitting across the table from your from your fellow man and just having a good conversation the way we used to do it a long time ago. I came from that generation too. And you're right. I'm a few years younger than you. But I remember those days. And I remember those days, well, when there were no cell phones, distracting us and no internet. And I came from that generation. So I get it I've we've both kind of live, we both live both of those lives, right. And, you know, it's still relevant for me, unfortunately. But I can I see, each day that goes by I just I almost say, it'll be so nice when I don't have to wake up feeling like I've got to post something on Instagram or social media, you know, like this interview here, man, you know, I'm going to promote the hell out of it. I'm going to, I'm going to say you know, if you're ever down in Malibu, you need to go see Jay and those guys at Zuma js and I'm gonna make the social media posts on Facebook and whatever is relevant, right. So it's just what I have to do. So I'll keep you in the loop on that. And let you know when the show post. I know you wanted your brother to probably hear it so I can send you the link and you can email it over to him whenever, whenever it comes out. I'll keep you posted there. It's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you. I thought it was a crapshoot. When I asked my brother to give me the number of the shop, I have to share this with you and then I'm gonna let you get about your day. But he was telling me, Man, this guy has done everything and I'm like, no kidding. And I said, well, I need to do like a bonus episode. I'm due for a bonus episode on my show. And that would be a great one to do. And I said give me the number of the shop. I'm gonna call and I'm gonna see if I can catch him. And he said, well, the shop closed at five o'clock and it was like 10 After five. And I said give me the number anyway, I'm a sales guy. I'm going to call him like that time doesn't mean anything to me. I'm going to come Maybe he'll pick up. And sure enough, you answered. And we talked for probably about 10 minutes on the phone there. And I explained the show and you said, I'd love to do that. So I'm glad that you that you joined. I'm glad that you didn't have to fight zoom too much. You did a great job there. And it was a pleasure living vicariously through you for the last couple of hours. Thank you for all the stories. And it's been a very interesting chat with you.

Zuma Jay  1:55:26

Thank you so much for the opportunity. And for educating me about how to do the zoom. Now I'll have more competence. And next time somebody wants to do this. I can say I did it on my own once I can do it again.

Randy Hulsey  1:55:38

And you should you should take people up on that and share your story because they are interesting stories and a lot of people will find them interesting. So keep doing that. And I asked the listeners to like, share and subscribe to the podcast. You can follow the show on Facebook at backstage pass radio podcast on Instagram, at backstage pass radio Twitter at backstage pass BC and on the website at backstage pass radio.com Thank you to the listeners that have sat down and listen to my conversations with Jay and you guys remember to take care of yourselves and each other. And we'll see you right back here on the next episode of backstage pass radio.

Adam Gordon  1:56:23

Thanks so much for joining us. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of backstage pass radio. Make sure to follow Randy on Facebook and Instagram at Randy Hulsey music and on Twitter at our Halsey music. Also make sure to like, subscribe and turn on alerts for upcoming podcasts. If you enjoyed the podcast, make sure to share the link with a friend and tell them backstage pass radio is the best show on the web for everything music. We'll see you next time right here on backstage pass radio