S6 : E6: Dan Smalley - Ballads of the Bayou

Speaker 1: 0:46

Hailing from the northwest of Louisiana, in a city known as Shreveport. My guest today now calls Nashville, tennessee, home. It's Randy Holsey with Backstage Pass Radio, and I hope everybody tuning in today is doing well. My guest today came by way of recommendation from an artist I had on my show back in November of 2023. He is an amazing singer-songwriter and has a brand new single that was recently released. Stay with me and I will introduce you to Nashville up-and-comer, dan Smalley, when we return.

Speaker 2: 1:21

This is Backstage Pass Radio, the podcast that's designed for the music junkie with a thirst for musical knowledge. Hi, this is Adam Gordon, and I want to thank you all for joining us today. Make sure you like, subscribe and turn alerts on for this and all upcoming podcasts. And now here's your host of Backstage Pass Radio, randy Halsey.

Speaker 1: 1:50

Dan, welcome my man. How's it going? Good to see you man, it's going great.

Speaker 3: 1:54

How are you? I appreciate you having me.

Speaker 1: 1:55

I'm good, it's good to finally be in your presence. As I know, you and I have kind of gone back and forth. Now for what? Maybe a month or so. So welcome, brother man, good to see you.

Speaker 3: 2:07

Good to make it, man.

Speaker 1: 2:08

How's life in the Nash for you these days?

Speaker 3: 2:13

to see you. Good to make it, man. How's life in the nash for you these days? It's busy, man. This place is going, going, going. There's so many people here now and so many more people coming in um and trying to navigate the music business, uh, independently. It just takes a lot of effort, every bit of your effort, and uh, I got two kids and a wife and so we're all just, uh, we're just getting it, man.

Speaker 1: 2:31

Yeah, other than you don't have anything going on, right?

Speaker 3: 2:35

Yeah, other than life and everything, yeah, nothing's going on.

Speaker 1: 2:38

Well, I guess you're sitting out at a baseball field. You spoke about that a little bit earlier, so you're kind of multitasking. Now You're giving me a little of your time and while the kid kids out there doing the baseball thing, right.

Speaker 3: 2:49

Yep Son is out here working hard Nice. We promote hard work in our family.

Speaker 1: 2:54

That's good man. There's nothing wrong with that. My dad always told me that you know, if you're going to do it, you're going to go do it. You're not going to toe the line or you're not going to go half-ass it. If you will, you're going to go all in or you're just going to not. Play is pretty much what it amounted to, right? So well, I know that you were born in Shreveport, right? Talk to the listeners a little bit about the upbringing in Louisiana.

Speaker 3: 3:19

So I was actually born in Alaska.

Speaker 1: 3:22

Were you. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, I'm a military brat.

Speaker 3: 3:26

I was born in Anchorage and then we moved to Alabama and then we moved to Ohio and then my parents split in Ohio and then we moved to Alabama and then we moved to Ohio and then my parents split in Ohio and my mama moved to Kansas with my stepdad. So I moved back and forth from Kansas to Ohio for a few years and then we moved to Louisiana in 99. But my mother is from Shreveport and so I was always in Louisiana growing up. We were in Converse every single summer. I feel like I was born and raised in Louisiana. Growing up, we were in Converse every single summer. I feel like I was born and raised in Louisiana for sure.

Speaker 3: 3:57

I wrote a blog about it on my website. You can go read. It kind of tells that little story about. Most of my life was spent in Louisiana. Most of my fondest memories are in Louisiana, on Toledo Bend or my cousins there in Shreveport. But man, I'm a military brat for sure. I grew up all over the place. I didn't stop till I was uh, almost 15 years old. I finally landed in Shreveport and stayed there for 17 years. Yeah Well, it's 18 years.

Speaker 1: 4:23

Yeah, well it's. It's good to always um learn something new about the artists. I like to say that I pretty diligently go out and do what homework I can, but you know, you're only allowed as much research as the Internet will allow you, right, and I'm sure there's nowhere on your websites that said you'd seen like 40 of the states before you even got to Shreveport right. So we're educated Good deal, man, that's good man.

Speaker 3: 4:50

I don't hold that against anybody. I wrote a song called Born and Raised in the Bayou, and that was the first thing my little sister said. I was like you weren't even born in Louisiana. She's calling you out right, I know, but my sound and I feel like my spirit, my soul are in Louisiana at all times.

Speaker 1: 5:04

And did you make the so from, so from Shreveport? Did Shreveport take you straight to Nashville? Is that where you went from Shreveport, or was there a stop or two along the way before Nashville?

Speaker 3: 5:16

I moved to Lake Charles for a little while, okay, around 2006. I started playing with a cover band. Okay, it was one of my first experiences with a touring cover band like that and I did that for three years. Those guys taught me so much just about how to be an entertainer, about how to stand on stage and and um, and and play rhythm guitar and um, just so. I can't express how crucial the experience is on a stage if you want to be on on a stage just go get on a stage and start playing.

Speaker 3: 5:52

That's what I tell people who ask me like, how do I get started? Just start. You just have to start, because until you get comfortable, until you spend hours and hours and hours entertaining people, then you really have no clue what you're doing and everybody sees it A hundred a hundred percent, a hundred percent, and You're saying how to entertain folks and however, you do that, man, that's a. That's your schooling, basically.

Speaker 1: 6:11

No, I hear you, it's trial by error and it's trial by fire too. And you know, before I started the podcast, uh, I call myself a part-time musician. I don't do it professionally or for a living, but uh, at one time, I think before the podcast, I was up to like 130 shows a year, you know, playing out in a duo. I was up to like 130 shows a year, you know, playing out in a duo. And I had my son, my oldest son, sit in on some of those shows. He's one of these players that's just a phenomenal player, but has this phobia of the stage, right. And I said, brandon, you know you just got to, the more you sit up there on that stage, the more accustomed you get to it. It becomes second nature, right. But if you only do it once every blue moon, you know you're you never really get rid of that, that whole fear of the stage. So you know repetitions, everything, I think.

Speaker 3: 6:59

Yes, sir, that's exactly right. I still play cover shows to this day, Like I'll go play a Friday morning um show at old red in the airport here at BNA from 8 30 to 12, 30 and um. It's one of my favorite ways to just wake up and go pick country music. I sit around and practice, to be honest with you, and they pay me to be there. Wow, I met a cat. Yeah, you have to do it. It's like a muscle man. If you quit doing it, you lose it you do well.

Speaker 1: 7:28

I met a cat in Old Reds last time I was in Nashville, I think I don't remember. I think it was. Dennis Drummond was his name. I don't know if that name sounds familiar, but he was like, I think, an American Idol contestant or something like that, and I talked to him there after a show and had asked him to be on the show. We had never lined anything out but, uh, great musician.

Speaker 3: 7:52

Dennis is on. Dennis made the record with me. Dennis is one of my best, really so.

Speaker 1: 7:55

So you know who, exactly who I'm talking about, then, yeah, what a small world, phenomenal guitar. Yeah, no, I really I enjoy it. Well, was the move to Nashville for you strictly to uh, progress the music career, or was there something else that took you there?

Speaker 3: 8:13

the music is what took me there. Writing songs is like it's something I've always done. I've tried to do it in Louisiana for a long time and there's really no economy for songwriters. There's no community of songwriters sitting around feeding off of each other. There's no creative energy in Shreveport and I didn't really realize that until I got to Nashville and and experienced actual creative energy that goes on in the city Right. And so when I saw, I figured that out, it was kind of me and my wife's decision to just go try it out and see what happens. And then I started to make some headway with some companies and had a bunch of people telling me hey, man, if you moved here you'd probably be fine. But the commitment to actually getting here was something that everybody was looking for and, sure enough, once we did, everybody kind of just welcomed us in and I feel like I fit in.

Speaker 3: 9:10

And the second part was the education for my children. That was really the selling point for me and my wife. I spent two years coming back and forth before we moved here. But just seeing the difference in economy and just like what an actual thriving city looked like, going from Shreveport to Nashville weekly was really weighing on me and it was like man, we could survive in this city for sure, if we can.

Speaker 3: 9:39

I mean, if we can do it in Shreveport, then I feel like we'll do better in Nashville and I feel like our kids will get a better education and I feel like it's just a better place for them to grow up, with the competition. And you know, I mean it's just. I feel like you can only control so many things when it comes to your children, and the environment that they grow up in is one of them. I just wanted to give them the best opportunity that they could possibly have in life and something, um, you know, I didn't really even grasp until I got older, and so I feel like this place has plenty of opportunity for whatever they might want to get into, whether it's music or not. The city is thriving and it's only getting bigger.

Speaker 3: 10:21

So I feel like 10 years from now, if they want to stay and they don't want to go anywhere, there's an opportunity for them to um have a here.

Speaker 1: 10:30

And, as a parent, you always want, you never want to look in the rear view mirror and say, man, why did I keep them in that school district, or why didn't I afford them something better? Right, you always want them to have the best, and even though my kids are grown now, I'm still always wanting them to have the best. That never goes away, man. You know, it don't matter if they're three or thirty, that that never goes away. If you're any kind of a parent, you could be a shitty parent, right of course, but uh, not to be, yeah, exactly. Well, how long have you been in the nash now, man?

Speaker 3: 11:02

since 2017. I started coming back and forth at the end of 2015, 2017, june 2017, we moved to Murfreesboro and then, in 18, we moved closer to the town. Okay.

Speaker 3: 11:15

And so me and my wife both. She works at SAG-AFTRA now. She's on the road daily and I'm on the road daily as well. I ride at my house often, and it's just a really convenient situation right now. To be honest with you, it's a dream come true for me, like just to do what I do for a living and love what I do, and it's paying our bills and we're in uh, statistically one of the hardest places to live on earth right now. We're doing okay.

Speaker 1: 11:43

Yeah, you know we're doing fine well, there's a lot to be said for that, because how many people get up and to an alarm every morning and just start moaning as soon as they hear it because they don't want to go, you know, build the building or cut the grass or fix the car or whatever, like they're doing things that they don't want to do. And I've always said there's no rewind button on life. Man there, you don't get to the end and say, oh shit, let me, let me rewind. You know this part it's, it is what it is. You can't look in the end and say, oh shit, let me rewind this part, it is what it is. You can't look in the rearview mirror and live with regrets at all. Right, so if you're doing your thing, that's important, and money, while it's important, it's never the most important thing. True, you feel me right?

Speaker 3: 12:26

And you can always make money. You can always make more and you can always make less.

Speaker 1: 12:29

Of course, make money. You can always make more and you can always make less.

Speaker 3: 12:31

Of course, you don't know how much you're willing to go out there and hustle, but right now my time with my children and my wife is crucial, so my time off the road is important and very strategically spent Absolutely 100% While they still want me around. They're getting old enough now to where they don't need us all. They'll always need you, man. I'll be getting on the road a little bit more when they start getting rid of all the pops.

Speaker 1: 12:55

Yeah no, they'll always need you in some form or fashion. That I can tell you. Well, I had read somewhere and correct me if I'm wrong that Jason Isbell may have had a small influence on you along the way and maybe your move to Nashville. Is there any truth to that at all? Are you a Isbell fan?

Speaker 3: 13:15

Yeah, I mean, I feel like if you're a songwriter and you don't think Southeastern is one of the greatest songwriter records of all time, then I feel like you're not really listening. I feel like he's a. He's one of the best we have right now as far as songwriting is concerned, not to mention his guitar playing and his singing but the songwriting is what I've always really just clung tight to and felt like all of my heroes, the reason I love them so much. Yeah, I love merle and and willie and and um johnny cash and all those guys and Alan and George and Randy and you know all of the country music. I love it all, but it's the great songs and the stories that I really, really love. And that's what I love about country music is finding those guys that just put feelings into words that you connect to.

Speaker 3: 14:09

And Jason does it in a way. I feel like he's the thinking man's writer. I feel like he's writing lyrics that you know I wish I could write stuff. He's just he's saying exactly what's on your mind in a way that you've never heard it before, or maybe you have heard it before and you've just never thought about it in a song. It's just. I'm so just like not envious of the guy I'm, I'm really, I really just try to learn from, to be honest with you and try to take it all in. I'm so happy I'm that we're here and at a time when we have somebody like jason is writing songs, I feel like he just raises the bar for everybody and, um, I feel like if you don't think that about Jason Isbell, then you're really not paying attention, or he jokes.

Speaker 1: 14:55

No, I, yeah. Well, I agree with you a hundred percent. And I don't know where I stumbled across the guy. I guess it was it dated back to his time with the drive by truckers, Right.

Speaker 3: 15:06

And the first time I heard God damn lonely love, I was like who is that guy?

Speaker 1: 15:10

Yeah, it's good stuff oh man yeah, I play that song in some of my shows and it never gets old. It's just, it's good stuff. You know what I mean, right, but but I've always said that about him. It's like this this guy is on another level than a lot of songwriters out there. It's just I I don't know what it is, I can't put my finger on it, but you, you listen to songs like, uh, vampires and you know, elephant and and songs that are. They're just deep Right and he's. I've always said he's kind of like the songwriter, songwriter. He's up there with the Dean Dillons of the world, right, there's, there's some songwriters and then there's there's another level of them. I don't know how they get to that level, but I love them as well. And I had another fabulous singer songwriter on my show back in november.

Speaker 3: 16:04

Tell me what you know about this. Uh, this sam banks guy sam banks is the truth man. Yeah, truth, I love that guy's voice. He's guitar picking, he's writing His person. He'll call me up every once in a while and I'll go sit in with him while he plays at the local and we'll do like a little duo thing and that's one of my favorite things to do is sit around and play country music with Sam Banks. But we've written a handful of songs that are very good. This one song that we wrote, called Me and All my Songs, is just a really, really great song and I hope he cuts it and puts it out into the world and if he don't, somebody will. But man, I love Sam Banks. First time I met Sam, he was selling merchandise for Craig Morgan.

Speaker 3: 16:47

I was opening up for Craig Morgan up in Shreveport at the stage. It was 2016, 2016, I believe I had we were, I might have been 17, we were just about to move to um to Nashville or I was in the process of getting back and forth and I remember meeting him and him coming up. He's like man, I really like what you did, that was awesome and we just man. I remember his face and then I got been to Nashville year two and then I met him again. I was like man, where are you from? I play, I play acoustic for Craig Morgan now.

Speaker 3: 17:17

Oh, I'll be damn, you know from from a merch guy to to pick her. That's awesome. And then I heard him and it's just so obvious how good he is. There's guys like him and will jones. There's a little group called old hickory with three just amazing vocalists and songwriters and pickers. There's this kid named zach top, this kid named jake worthington oh yeah, just a handful of really, really really country singers that remind me of Joe Diffie and Alex Jackson and that stuff. Man, I love to see it. I'm not that man. I'm not that. I'm more of a songwriter. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 18:01

I get it.

Speaker 3: 18:01

I get it I love Merle Haggard, I love Willie Nelson and Johnny Cash and all those guys. I didn't move to Nashville to try to make like a 90s uh tribute record, and as much as I love 90s country music, um, I'm trying to. I'm trying to make my own sound, yeah, and and that's hard man no, I get it.

Speaker 1: 18:24

And you know, when I talked to sam I he he spoke very, very highly of you. I I always ask each artist at the end of the show, like, who do you recommend? Who do I need to talk to? You tell me right. And he's like you need to get in touch with Dan, and he's a great guy, has a great story, and so that's how I came to know of you.

Speaker 1: 18:45

And the interesting thing about Sam is I was there in Nashville doing an interview with Dave Rowe, who was the upright bass player for Johnny Cash for 11 years, and we went to, we went to the Nashville Palace and a couple of guys were on stage that day and I'm like God dang, their guitars just sound like cannons, right, they just sounded amazing. And one of them came off stage and I introduced myself and it was Sam and I said, hey, man, I've got this, this podcast in Cypress, texas. That's now a global thing, heard in 80 countries, and I, man, I'd love to hear your story. I really love your original music that you're doing. And that day he was swapping songs with Corey Hunt, you know from. Uh, I think he did some time or worked with Luke Combs and whatnot, but uh, yeah, but both of those guys were absolutely amazing. So that's how I come to you is by way of Sam, and that was my introduction, you know from the Nashville.

Speaker 3: 19:48

We just lost Dave. That's sad. I know Yep, and my wife was the director of recording at the union for a year and a half. Really, she'd gotten to know a lot of these musicians. He's a lot of these overcuts, dave. Dave was one of those people. What an amazing musician, amazing person.

Speaker 1: 20:05

He was a great guy, in fact I, he came to my hotel room and we did the interview in my hotel room and three weeks later I get a message from his cell phone and it was basically, are you the one that did the interview with Dave? And I'm like, yeah, and it was his wife letting me know that he had, he had passed. I hadn't even aired the interview yet. Man, it was, it was, it was a trip, yeah, but oh, what a, what a sweetheart of a guy. He was gracious with his time and his stories. I think we sat in that room for an hour and a half and talked, right, so I'm so happy you got that yeah, it's out there.

Speaker 1: 21:33

You'll have to check it out sometime if you're definitely gonna go listen to that.

Speaker 3: 21:37

I'm almost sending it to my wife.

Speaker 1: 21:38

I didn't realize that was I'll text you a link after this so you don't have to go hunt it down. But uh, not, uh, you know, not only are you what I've come to know as an amazing singer, songwriter, but you play the guitar as well. Do you remember when you fell in love with the guitar? Was it later in life? Was it early on? Talk to the listeners a little bit about the instrument so, yeah, I was.

Speaker 3: 22:05

I started on the saxophone in third grade and, um, I never really played the guitar. My dad had one and my grandfather my grandparents had him in the house, um, kind of tucked under the beds, and I was always fooling with them trying. My dad taught me how to play. Pretty woman, I remember when I was in high school we were just hanging out one time, or it might have been middle school, he was in japan, most of my high school and um, and then it wasn't until I broke my leg in five places my senior year playing football and I had kind of given music up for for high school football and as soon as I couldn't play football anymore, I grabbed a guitar and it was not easy to play. It was a horrible guitar so it didn't sound very good. And then I graduated up to a little jasmine takamini and it I just got after it.

Speaker 3: 22:59

Man, I was almost 19 years old before I started playing guitar, but then, when I was 24, I really started to take it serious. Yeah and um, but man, I taught myself. So I'm not a guitar player. I tell people I do not consider myself a guitar player because I know people like sam banks and will jones and those, and you watch guys like Billy Strings and Trey, yeah of course.

Speaker 3: 23:22

All just the absolute phenoms and I'm just like I'll never be that, I'll never do that and I'm okay with it. But I will definitely work every single day to try to get better at this instrument and that's all I can do. But it was always to accompany my voice and my songs, man. It was always just so I could sing.

Speaker 1: 23:41

You know what, though, dan? I wanted to throw this out to you because I think it's important, and I think it's important for other musicians that listen to the show, and it kind of goes in line with what you're saying. I had a guy that was on my show sometime back and he's a phenomenal player, tours all over Europe and he asked me to come down and sit in with him one time, and I'm like man, are you sure? Like dude, I'm not even on the same, not even close to the same level of player you are. And he said music's not a competition. Just bring your guitar down. Right, and I would say the same. I would echo that same thing Zach said to me. To you, it's I. I mean, who are you competing against? You're competing against yourself every day, right? That's. The only competition you need to worry about is yourself and pleasing yourself. Um, yes, sam doesn't care if you play guitar as good as him.

Speaker 1: 24:34

At the end of the day right, because it's not going to make him any more or any less money by you doing that right. It's only going to help him any more or any less money. By you doing that right, it's only going to help you at the end of the day.

Speaker 3: 24:45

Well, I love picking and singing with that guy. I do know that and I try my best to learn something from him every time I sit down with him Because that kid's good.

Speaker 1: 24:53

Yeah, and he's a great guy. He's just a down-to-earth guy and so easy to talk to. We talked like man. I feel like I've known this kid for 15 years. Like you, you. Just you know you quickly connect with people somehow. Some you don't, some you do, and he was one of those ones that I connected with, great guy.

Speaker 3: 25:11

And then his brothers were on TV on some kind of reality show.

Speaker 1: 25:15

Yeah, yeah, and I know his brother was a musician. He talked a lot about his brother in the, I guess from his Missouri days where he grew up and whatnot. But do you have a preference of? You, say you're not a guitarist, but do you have a preference of the acoustic over the electric or vice versa?

Speaker 3: 25:33

I'm a much better acoustic guitar player than I'm an electric guitar player, but I do love to play electric guitar. Gotcha, and I'm working on chicken picking right now. That's, there's a stroke with the pick and the finger and it's uh, it's tricky, but I'm definitely working on as soon as I can figure that thing out because I love to finger pick, yeah, and chicken pick, a little bit of finger picking with a picking ball.

Speaker 3: 25:56

You know it's this, uh, or what they call a hybrid picking. Yeah and um I'm really working on my right hand and um, but no, I much prefer the acoustic guitar, just because I'm way more comfortable on it that now there is this acoustic sonic guitar that came out. That's kind of kind of does the same kind of does it's a hybrid guitar. Yeah, of course it's definitely a hybrid kind of it's almost like playing a piece of plastic.

Speaker 3: 26:21

Really, it's real light. It's super touchy when it comes to, um, keeping the strings in tune as far as the neck is concerned. Just because it's so light and you can, I feel like you could probably break it in half, of course, on it. But man, the electronics in that guitar are absolutely futuristic and they make it sound amazing.

Speaker 1: 26:43

I know.

Speaker 3: 26:49

It's hard to grab an acoustic guitar and some pedals that are going to make it sound like this thing yes, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 26:52

Instead of just grabbing that thing and taking it with you, I get it. The shittiest part to me is that you have to plug it in and charge it. Yes, because if you're in the middle of a set and starts going dead, you know I would grab another one. Yeah so, but I have. I have had better luck navigating the, the or the, the world, really, with it. As far as sticking it in an overhead compartment, it fits in all of them, yep, even the little planes, exactly. And.

Speaker 3: 27:21

I'm not real worried about it. I'm really really not worried about the body breaking, because it's not the body that's making the sound, it's the electronics and the and the guitar. So but yeah, man, I'm a, I'm an acoustic guitar player, for sure, and if you're going to hire me to come on the road with you, I'm rhythm at best. I could probably pull off some runs and maybe a solo on the guitar, but I will sit back and stay in time and sing pretty harmonies with you.

Speaker 1: 27:50

Well, that's the thing I mean. Everybody has their place, right. It's just called knowing your role and you don't try to jump outside of those lanes, right? You stay in those lanes. Everybody does their part and that's. That's all you need at the end of the day. Talk a little bit about what we musicians refer to as rounds. Okay, when you talk about a writer's round to the non-musician listening to this show, what does that mean and why would a guy like Dan Smalley even care about playing around?

Speaker 3: 28:25

Yeah. So writer's rounds for me were crucial. When I, when I started coming to Nashville because I didn't know anybody, um and so, and I honestly didn't know what a writer's round was either I was told by a couple of people. I have a friend named Chris Canterbury. That's from Louisiana too. He's a phenomenal songwriter, phenomenal country singer, just a great guy. One of the saddest country songwriting dudes I know. But he was like hey, man, you need to check out this thing called the Revival. I believe he was helping a couple more buddies, rob Snyder and Channing Wilson, book it for a little while. And then there was another thing called the Whiskey Jam and, coincidentally, the guy that ran the Whiskey Jam at the time was bartending at the Revival. And so I played a Revival and he came and talked to me afterwards.

Speaker 3: 29:16

He was like hey, man, I ain't got to play Whiskey Jam. I was like, all right, I'm in. And then there was another little round called the freak show and I didn't know. It's just one of those things. I was across the street from from, uh, from winners from the whiskey jam, and you walk over there and it's the at the blue bar, or it was at the blue bar at the time as people like terry joe box and blue foley and ashley mcbride, and it's just one of those things where I happened to fall into a good group of people that were writing really good music, right, and that's exactly what I was looking for.

Speaker 3: 29:47

Yeah, and that wouldn't happen had I not started going to writers rounds. So every trip I made from then on, like I had a reason to go, and I would call them every time hey, you got a round going on, you're gonna put me up, and I would just go there and meet people every single time and it's like, hey, you want right, yeah, I'll be back next week, I'll be back next month, I'm you know, just, uh, give me a reason to come back. Yeah, and I would fill my schedule up with rights and writers rounds and then eventually it was publishing meetings and meetings with other people and agents and, um, eventually you have, like, like some of the lower people at the labels reaching out saying like, hey, who are you, where are you from, what are you doing here? And when that started happening is when I told my wife I was like, hey, all these people telling me to move here, and and then she flew up to nashville one time and I took her to her writers round and at that writers round, terry joe box introduced me as the best country singer in nashville, tennessee, and and then the, the, just the applause and the welcome that I got after I played a song.

Speaker 3: 30:50

My wife had never seen that in shreveport. She'd never seen it, period, of course. And then I walked across the street to winters to see my buddy, david borne, playing just an acoustic show they did every wednesday night and sat down and, uh, we were hanging out and cree harrison was there, one of the greatest voices. Um, she was on the voice and we got up. He got me up to play a song and just she, I feel like she understood when she saw all that.

Speaker 3: 31:15

She's like okay it all came together right totally get what you're doing and you really are doing something up here. And not only do they know you, they believe in you, and this didn't take anything after that. She was like all right, we got to be here.

Speaker 1: 31:31

Let's go. How great is it to be in a place where everybody I shouldn't say everybody, but 80 percent of the people in Nashville are people just like you, right, that are out there writing and performing and are living the musical dream. How cool is that to be in a place that is predominantly a bunch of Dan Smalley's running around right, isn't that cool?

Speaker 3: 31:58

Yeah, it is cool. He's running around right, isn't that cool? Yeah, it is cool. I honestly feel like it's crucial to uh, to anybody trying to get better at whatever they're doing. If you don't surround yourself with people like-minded, people with the same um goals and uh, then I don't know, you're kind of just doing it yourself. Yeah, and that's so hard. Yes, that's so hard. Yep, like even jason isbell was in an amazing rock and roll band with one of the best writers out there, you know doing it, and then in muscle shoals, surrounded and surrounded by just monsters, um, so it wasn't as if he just magically became this amazing songwriter. He was surrounded with greatness and luckily it rubbed off on him, luckily he got his head out of his ass and he figured all that out. But it's just one of those things I feel like is crucial If you want to be a great baseball player, you go surround yourself with the best baseball players If you want to be a great businessman.

Speaker 3: 33:02

You go find the best business people that you can find and learn and try to get in and try to be like them. Well, that's what you want to do.

Speaker 1: 33:10

I always said that mediocrity breeds mediocrity. Right, if you're around mediocre people, you're going to be just a mediocre person too. People, you're going to be just a mediocre person too. But if you surround yourself with a great songwriter, you, if you're competitive and you have a drive, you're going to want to be just like that person. You're going to want to step up your game because you want to be on that same level. Right, that's just that's. That's the humanness in each of us every day to strive to be better at the end of the day. Yes, sir, share with the listeners why an artist would ever want to entertain playing in a round. What does that do?

Speaker 3: 33:53

for a writer or a musician, in your own words.

Speaker 3: 33:54

One, it's a good place to try out your songs on people, because you never know if I mean, you have your opinion of what you think you wrote and so maybe somebody else's opinion that was in the room, but that's usually it. So trying it out on people's ears usually works out. Two, it's a good place to meet other songwriters, for sure. And yeah, that's where you get your co-writes man and you hear a song on stage from a guy that you've never met before and you're just like blown away and you're like, holy crap, dude, we should make some stuff up together, sure, and that happens all the time. So meeting other co-writers and other talents is like the other part of it. I guess the third part is just like practice. It's good practice to be on stage and sing in front of other people. If that's something you're interested in doing, yeah, but I mean, nobody's going to hear those songs unless you get out there playing them or you get them to somebody who can. Even then you got to play it at some point of course.

Speaker 1: 34:56

Well, how important is it to you, know, to intermingle with the other writers? Like so, I guess? I guess, if you're not a songwriter and I know the answer, of course but like to the non musician, is it important to intermingle with these? Co-writing is a really big thing, right, because it gives you another dynamic to the song, of course, but I think a lot of people, the non-musician, might be under the impression that when a song is written, it's usually written by one person. Talk a little bit about the co-write, right. What does that?

Speaker 3: 35:43

mean to the, to the casual listener. So yeah, it's just a collaboration of two minds usually, if it there's a, if it's a co-write. Those are the experiences I've had. I have heard of instances where, like somebody sends somebody an idea, then they make the song and that's called a co-write too, sure, um, because they still sent the idea, or some one person did the music, the other person did the lyrics. Um, that's also co-write, because without one or the other it's not a song. Of course, you know what there are songs without lyrics. So I can't really say that and that's something you know. Yeah, you can make a song without lyrics.

Speaker 1: 36:16

Uh, now that you can't make a song without, without song, though that's right, that's right.

Speaker 1: 36:20

Well, the last, uh last, guest I had on my show has opened three european tours for joe satriani and um, he's a well, I mean he's an all-around songwriter, vocalist, guitarist, but a lot of the stuff that he does, um he, he plays a fretless glass guitar and, um, you know some of the stuff that he does. He plays a fretless glass guitar and you know some of his stuff. There's no lyrics in it, right, but it's still a song because there's music, right. So you make a good point there. It doesn't necessarily have to be lyrics in it for it to be a song, right?

Speaker 3: 36:54

Yeah, and if you're just talking, that's more of a poem.

Speaker 1: 36:57

That's right. Then you're reading poetry on a Friday night, right, yeah? Yeah, well, I have a friend who has played many rounds in and around Nashville and probably all over, for that matter and she was on my show a while back and I think she might've even interviewed you. Her name is Kirstie Krause I don't know if, yeah, and she's there in nashville, uh, with you. So girl there, yeah. So hello to kirsty if she happens to drop in and listen to the interview. Come on, let's go. What's the uh ratio, dan, for you as it relates to dan smalley shows, versus that of rounds?

Speaker 3: 37:41

two different things there, of course, right yeah, as far as like ratio of like how many I play, yeah, like, if is it, is it 90 percent dan smalley solo or band shows, or is it?

Speaker 1: 37:54

or is it more heavily weighted on rounds that you're doing these days? Um, I'd say it's probably about 70 30 on which side the rounds are 70 percent or no. You're around 30 percent gotcha, gotcha.

Speaker 3: 38:10

Yeah, I play a lot by myself too, do you?

Speaker 1: 38:12

okay, well, and I know one of the most famous places uh to play around uh would be the bluebird cafe, right right there in your, in your, in your backyard For the most part it is literally in my backyard.

Speaker 3: 38:24

Yeah, I live right around the corner from it.

Speaker 1: 38:25

Yeah, and have you, uh, yeah, have you been fortunate enough to uh get to sit in there and play one of those rounds in the bluebird?

Speaker 3: 38:34

I have. I've played a number of rounds in the bluebird and, um, I really love that room. It's one of my favorite rooms to play in. I have used the Bluebird and I really love that room. It's one of my favorite rooms to play in. They only give you four tickets for people to bring with you, so I've had to invite different people here and there. There you go. At one point we had three Dan Smalley's in the crowd. We had me, we had my dad and we had a Dan Smalley that makes guitars from Georgia.

Speaker 1: 38:54

Really Wow.

Speaker 3: 38:55

We were all in the Bluebird together while I was playing.

Speaker 1: 38:58

That's a whole lot of Dan Smalley's in the same room, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 39:01

Yeah, it was wild. They had a hard time running our tab. Right? Who's paying for this one, right? Randall King in the Bluebird I played with Ashley McBride, came to that show and played with us. Mark Nessler, I played with Keith Stegall. I played with James LeBlanc. I played with Keith Stegall. I played with James LeBlanc. I played a number of Trent, harmon, brinley, addingty. I've had some really cool shows with Bluebird man.

Speaker 1: 39:26

I bet, and there's been some world-class musicians that have come in and out of that place and it's some of these songwriters that have written some of the songs that we hear on the radio that have been done for other people. Other people made these songs famous right, and a lot of times the cool thing about the rounds, especially at a listening room like the Bluebird, is you get to see the actual songwriter, the brains or the mastermind behind the song, which is really cool.

Speaker 3: 39:55

That's right. Yeah, man, without the songwriter, the song don't exist. No, it doesn't at all. I feel like the end started to forget all that, especially with the ai and all that running around now I feel like they can just cut out all the little men and start just keeping the problem exactly I'm fighting against here in nashville. It's a uh, it's a hefty loft of a fight. I'll go ahead and say that, though, because corporations are running everything, basically these days, the whole world, so to say that you have a chance against any kind of corporate entity of making them change their minds on whether or not they want to fairly provide or divide any kind of revenue is a different story. That's probably a different podcast too, to be honest.

Speaker 1: 40:34

Well, it's interesting that you say that. Well, it made me think, like when you talked about playing at the Bluebird. Right, specifically, we go back to the Bluebird for just a second. What was the first experience like in the Bluebird? And I'll let you answer that, and then I'll tell you what my first experience with the Bluebird was like. Yeah, was it a nervous time for you? Was it an excitement time? How did you? How did you feel as a musician.

Speaker 3: 41:04

It's always exciting for me, man, to be honest with you. I'm I don't know. I lost that nerve thing. Um, not that I, I don't know. I say I don't get nervous. I like to call a little more anxious than nervous, cause I, I don't know you do something long enough and you better be damn confident at it, be able to get up on a stage in front of thousands of people and not be scared. I do get anxious though, do you? Anxious is more the feeling for me. Yeah, it's where I can feel that little thing in my stomach start to turn and it's like, damn it. All right, step up, son. Yeah, do what you do, entertain these people. I don't like to call it nervous, I like to call it anxious and then really just fuel that.

Speaker 3: 41:47

I use to go out there and do my best and try to just entertain folks. You know what I mean? Yeah, 100%. But I'm pretty sure the first Bluebird show was with James and Keith, I believe Jen Stegall, and that's exactly the way it should have been those people. Keith's the first person to open his doors in Nashville to me. He's from Shreveport. James is the reason I'm up here and he's from Shreveport, and Jen's one of my favorite people and co-writers on the planet, so that was a real special experience for me. I'm pretty sure that's how those were, the three man, I'm sorry. Like I said, I played it a handful of times so the room kind of I don't know. They all kind of run together because it is a very intimate and important experience. But I've had my kids in there with me. My wife and kids, my, my parents, um, friends, very dear friends, have come. I need to see if I can get back in there. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:52

Well, it's interesting because you know, if you're if you're not a native of Nashville, right, and you've never been to Nashville, you've never been to the Bluebird Cafe. If you're a musician, you've. We've heard about Bluebird Cafe since the 80s, right since its inception, and it's kind of like the whole Texas thing. You know, you hear about the Alamo, you grow up with Texas history and it's like they talk about the Alamo, they teach you about the Alamo.

Speaker 1: 43:22

So this Alamo story, when you envision the Alamo, you're thinking about this just grand place, like this huge place, right. And so the first time I ever went to Nashville, it's like I'm going to go to the Bluebird and I and I walk up and it's like like this, this, this is it, right, you know. You know it was kind of like almost not to discount what goes on inside those four walls, right, but it's outside, it's kind of lackluster, like oh, I was thinking it was like this big Mecca music hall kind of thing, right, it's like in a little strip center with a tattered banner hanging over the door and fits less than 100 people in it, but uh, but there's magic that happens inside the place, right.

Speaker 3: 44:09

So you can't judge a book by its cover, for sure no, I agree with that, man, and I think they just had some renovations, maybe because they had a water pipe explode when it got cold or something like that happened. And, man, if you hadn't been recently, you might not be able to find that place, because it's been. They've stacked up a couple pretty big buildings right next to it and knocked everything around and down. Really so kind of crazy yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:35

As a songwriter, do you prefer to write alone or do you prefer the co-writes you yourself?

Speaker 3: 44:46

alone or do you prefer the co-writes you yourself? Um, I'm gonna go ahead and say I've written more songs, and better songs, with co-writers, okay, or I feel I have, and I have written a handful of really good songs by my. Are that songs that I feel like are good songs by myself too? But I usually like to grab the concept of what I'm, of the idea that I'm trying to figure out, and as soon as I get the little hook, that way there's a clear goal that we're going for, because ideas are fun too, and sometimes, every once in a while, an idea will fall in a room and it'll just take off and you can write it. But most of the time it's an idea, and then I, I got to chew on it for a minute. Okay, because in my head there's like I'm going 500 different ways, that that it can go, and, and I I got to usually like narrow it down to the what I feel like might be the coolest route. Yes, and uh, sometimes having people in the room can make that a lot easier. Or or it can just be like their idea and I could be like, yeah, you, what do you want to do? Let's do that and just help them push that idea forward and just make shit up. You know what I mean, of course. And when it becomes a co-write, sometimes, if it's, if the idea isn't flat, like flushed out before, like at the whole idea to the hook, like, how does it, what's the, the plot, what's the premise? Like, are there characters? How does it hook? Are we booking in this course? Or how are we doing this thing? Like, if all that isn't figured out, then, um, sometimes too many heads in a room can get in the way, of course, and and you end up walking away with a song that you're not really in love with. That happens often, especially when you're not controlling your own co-writes.

Speaker 3: 46:27

Luckily these days for me, I don't have to get in any room that I don't want to, so I don't really venture off into uncharted territory a whole lot anymore or not near as much as I did when I first got here just because when you're signing publishing deals and record deals and stuff like that, they want you in the room with everybody and I don't know, I just don't vibe with everybody, you know, and I don't really connect with everybody. I don't really love all the number ones that this guy wrote. You know what I mean. Not only do I not love them, I don't even like them, and I've never even heard half of them Like. It's just one of those things where it's like there's a reason I don't. I've never been in this room and now sometimes, if you get forced in there, then it's just like this is not any fun. Why am I here exactly when you?

Speaker 1: 47:12

that's only happened a handful of times, but it's definitely happened. I'm sure it has. When you do one of these co-writes, is the goal to have a finished song at the end of the session or does it sometimes take multiple sessions? Sometimes it takes multiple sessions to complete a song, correct?

Speaker 3: 47:31

I think so. Yeah, and I don't know, maybe I'm old school in that manner. I don't know. I feel like a lot of it. I'm never looking to just go in and finish a song. I'm never looking to just go in and finish a song. That's people who expect you to walk in and write the greatest song you've ever written in three hours or four hours with somebody you just met. Sometimes is a bit of a stretch.

Speaker 3: 48:00

I've had songs come out in an hour and a half or 45 minutes or by myself, like 15, 20 minutes, just stream of conscious. You know what I mean. I get it Making shit up. Yeah, most of those instances are just that. They're just little blips in time, little ditties that you make up and they don't go anywhere. Man, because I don't know in time. Little ditties that you make up and they don't go anywhere. Man, because I don't know.

Speaker 3: 48:26

Most of my favorite songs that I've written, I like invested a little bit of time and thought and and um, just, I don't know. I feel like the song deserves that and I can't say that's 100 of every single song, because I know that there's a place for red solo lookup and you know shit like that and I guarantee they wrote that song like 10 minutes. Yeah, and there is a a place for red solo lookup and you know shit like that, and I guarantee they wrote that song in like 10 minutes and there is a definite place for that. So I'm not against those songs, but when it comes to like me preferably like my preferences um, on anything I'm gonna fall in love is probably going to be something that I chewed on and like and really thought about, and not only that, but it's probably gonna be something you hear.

Speaker 3: 49:03

And unless you chew on on and like and really thought about and not only that, but it's probably gonna be something you hear and unless you chew on it and think about it a few times, you might miss a few things. You know what I mean. Like I don't know. I love layers and I love when a when a song and a lyric does two or three different things and says three or four different. That like this. I just like the way that the game is and like that's the puzzle, putting together pieces of it. Like that's, I love that game.

Speaker 1: 49:25

I think that there was a telepathy there. You must've read my mind because I was going to ask you that if your, if your best songs are are songs that marinate over time, or if they're the quick writes and you know some of the greatest songs ever in the history of songdom, right, we're written in 10 minutes. Right, rich Girl by Hall Oates, like I mean. The list goes on and on and on. You know, these guys wake up in the middle of the night and say you know, let me grab this recorder. They write it and it's a number one hit on the billboard charts. Right, nobody's going to get pissed about that. But it sounds like you answered my question before I even ask it.

Speaker 1: 50:04

You take your time with the songs and just kind of let them organically happen, right? You don't force a 10 minute song or a 20 minute song. It is what it is at the end of the day. How do you go about picking who you're going to write with? Is that pick for you? Is that pick there? You pick it yourself, like, how does that work?

Speaker 3: 50:24

Yeah, I'm picking myself these days and so people reach out to me or I'll reach out to somebody and be like, hey, we need to get back on the books, or, um, yeah, but I'm, I'm looking for all the ideas. To be honest with you and I haven't I don't know, I've never really turned a whole lot of people down as far as like co-writing goes. You just kind of got to ask like, hey, you interested and I'll find some time, usually because all I need is an idea to write a song. That's kind of what all of us are looking for a great idea, or an idea period, Something I've never heard before, or something to just jog something in my brain that makes me go a certain direction. Well, that's all, that's, songwriter, that's all I'm looking for. Some kind of uh, inspiration, I think, is what they call that some kind of aha moment or whatever right you know.

Speaker 1: 51:14

It just kind of comes to you inspiration.

Speaker 3: 51:16

I'm pretty sure is what that is. Yep, if you get inspired if I get inspired it's pretty easy to take off and create something, yeah yeah. But if there's no inspiration and it's just going through the motions, yeah yeah, I'm just going through the motions. I'm not enjoying myself, of course.

Speaker 1: 51:32

Well, that's with anything, whether it's a song or, you know, playing baseball, right, if your head's not in it, you don't want to be on the field. Right, I mean not in it, you don't want to be on the field, right, I mean at the end of the day. So, yeah, what do you think the main difference is? In the people who write songs, the ie, the, the dan smallies of the world. You guys write all of these songs and I know there's thousands of writers in nashville that just write, write, write, write, write. What's the difference in the writer that never gets a song picked up?

Speaker 1: 52:07

Like, like the writers like the Paul Overstreets, the Don Schlitz, the Dean Dillons of the world, you know they've got thousands of number one hits out there. Why do they have so many? And then all the other people don't have any, or have very few, or nobody's heard of them. Right, like, what do you? What do you think their chemistry is that the other 10,000 songwriters in Nashville don't have? You think it's just timing? Do you think it's being in the right place at the right time, coupled with skill? Like, have you ever thought about that?

Speaker 3: 52:40

Have you ever thought about that man? That's a big question. It's like if I were to just try to answer where people get their God-given talent from. It's like I want to say experience, but then I'll wrap it up with something that tells me experience has absolutely fucking nothing to do with it. But I will say life experiences probably have a lot to do with the way those guys brains work. Not only that, but what they're ingesting in their brain. Like what are they reading, what are they on a daily basis to? Not just what they grow up doing.

Speaker 3: 53:23

No, you have to feed your brain in order to spit words back out of it. It has to be a constant regurgitation of information coming in and out. It needs to be new information. It can't be the same information. So I'm constantly reading new books, or listening to podcasts, or listening to books and just looking for inspiration and just poetry. I mean any kind of literature that you can get your hands on, like as far as being a writer, as far as I'm concerned, like you have to read if you want to write, of course, yeah, well, I was going to ask you that.

Speaker 1: 54:00

So it sounds like you're saying you almost have to be well read up on current events and just kind of worldly, so to speak, right, and because the more stuff that goes into your brain, the more stuff can come out of the brain Right, versus that of somebody that never ingest anything new or anything exciting.

Speaker 3: 54:20

Yeah, I mean, how are you going to write about something you don't know about? Of course, also, where the experience things come from, if, if you have experience in a certain lifestyle or I don't know. I talked to a guy the other day. He was like man, I grew up on the streets of New York. I was one of those little boys running around that was homeless. I was like man, have you ridden that yet? And he's like no, I was like you should.

Speaker 3: 54:52

Wow, yeah, like that sounds like a, like a great song to me, like something simon and garfunkel probably jump onto and like nail to the cross in some weird way. And then I'll go ahead and say like I heard bruce springsteen say that he spent his entire career writing about the working man and and nine to five jobs and in industrial living, you know, and this, this whole like working man's type uh song. And he fucking once did any of that. Yeah, of course, and by the end he's like and I seen he's like I made it all up, yeah, because I'm just that. So there's that whole. That dude didn't have any experience in that shit, but I guarantee he read about it, of course well, he was probably around it all of his life.

Speaker 1: 55:37

Right, you think of new jersey. You think of the, the, the working man, you know. Or, or the steel mills in in indiana right, you know. You think of john mellencamp, you know, writing about everything. The blue collar worker across the midwest right, you know, did. Did they ever do that hard work maybe, but you know, they were around it all.

Speaker 3: 55:57

Their I'm sure their dads and their grandfathers did all of that too, right man most of my favorite writers, in my opinion, feels like when I hear a song they wrote, it seems like they just opened up their eyes and they observed life around them. Sure, and telling a story of something that happened either around them or to them and that's it. Just experience, man, if you can, if you can go out and either read a story or watch a story or listen to somebody tell you a story, or even eavesdrop in the bar. I know plenty of songwriters back in the day that would just go to the bar and sit there and watch people and listen to their stories, just dig like writing ideas down.

Speaker 3: 56:37

That's how they got it. I do that. I just put it on my cell phone. These days I'm walking around with a notepad. There's plenty of stories in the bar, I'm sure. Right, I'm constantly like hearing people say something like oh, that's a song I did, yeah, and jotting it down real quick just to make sure I don't forget, like what was said, and um, but that is an active thing that I've done for a very, very long time, since I was a child.

Speaker 1: 57:03

So where that comes from, I have no clue, right Well, yeah, and there was, and for that question there was no right or wrong answer. Right, and I wasn't trying to put you on the spot. But I think about all of these tens of thousands of songwriters that have probably been in Nashville for tens of twenties of years writing, probably been in Nashville for tens of twenties of years writing, writing, pounding, grinding and never, ever get a fucking hit song. And then you've got these Dean Dillon guys that everything they write they're like King Midas man. Everything they touch turns to gold. Right, look at all the George Strait hits. That guy wrote like unbelievable gold right.

Speaker 3: 57:45

Look at all the george straight hits that guy wrote like unbelievable. I would almost guarantee, knowing dean, that he would tell you he has less hits than he has songs like oh, I'm sure guarantee the percentage of songs that is is still just unfathomable. I guarantee that guy has written more songs and forgotten more songs than any of us. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 58:04

Yeah, Uh, 100% three like walks and lives and breathes, lyric and melody, and he's one of the greatest to ever do it. I've been fortunate enough to get to be around him a couple of times and it's just like unworldly.

Speaker 1: 58:19

Yeah, I'm sure it's like, uh, you know, I don't even know how to compare it, but uh, I have to think that that would be a pretty big thing as a songwriter to be in the same room as dean dylan, right? I mean, who who doesn't know who?

Speaker 3: 58:31

dean dylan is, right, at the end of the day, I've gotten to write with bill anderson a couple times okay nice kind of feeling like I can't believe I'm in this damn room right now, but I'm like a little boy on Christmas and I hadn't done anything but write good songs with both those men.

Speaker 1: 58:47

So it's a I think it's a testament of who they are and and just if you had to pick a favorite songwriter, excluding yourself, who do you think it would be? Who comes? Who just pops into Dan Smalley's mind when I say give me your favorite songwriter. I know that's a hypothetical, tough question, right, but who? Who's the first person that pops into your mind?

Speaker 3: 59:10

willie nelson. Okay, absolutely okay. Yeah, he and merle haggard are my, my rushmore he merle christopherson ding Hall, that's old school there, you know, bob Hill, the greats man. There's a list, there's a very long list, I'm sure. I'm sure, but those guys specifically, for some reason and I'm old-fashioned, call me old-fashioned, but that's the kind of country music I live to write and love to sing and perform. I am trying to create my own thing.

Speaker 1: 59:46

Well, I was going to say you're an old soul, right, I mean you're a young man, but you kind of have an old soul there with some of those names that you mentioned, right? Tom T Hall Not many young bucks like you even know who Tom T Hall is. Right, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3: 1:00:01

Yeah, tom T is one of my favorites. Who Tom T Hall is? Right, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, tom T is one of my favorites. Yeah, he's a. That's a guy that I feel like just walked around looking at life and writing stories just in the best possible way that he could. But that guy with lyrics, man was just so talented.

Speaker 1: 1:00:16

The big fan of him, of course. Yeah, speaking of writing great songs, you released a monster of a song this year and it's called Mr Jerry's Ghost, and I would like to, I'd like to treat the listeners to a short clip of that song and then we'll come back and chat about that song. Fair enough, killer. Yeah, stand by.

Speaker 4: 1:00:40

Jerry White was 68. Gun club and RA stamped on his license plate, dropped the charges the same day. He said he's usually a better shot. He said he might have had a second thought. Hard to know for sure With someone kicking down your door. Lucky for that boy, the bullets missed his heart. It's hard to recognize your drunk-ass neighbor in the dark. Young man paid the damage off, hadn't had one drop since. Those two shots Supposed to kill him dead, somehow saved his life instead. But january brought a bit of rain. The sirens came and this time they were just too late.

Speaker 1: 1:01:36

Oh man, jerry's heart gave way that was a song called mr j Jerry's Ghost and Dan. What a potent song with crazy subject matter. There, man, Talk to the listeners a little bit about what inspired that song.

Speaker 3: 1:01:56

Yeah, man, that's a crazy story. It's a true story. It's about me, about me getting shot, about me getting drunk, which I did a lot back in the day in blackout or what is it called Temporary amnesia is the technical term, I believe. And, man, I did a lot of running and gunning in my 20s and did some substances that helped me do that running and gunning. And as soon as I quit those substances, I started to lose time with alcohol and could not control any of the whiskey that I was putting into my body and it ended up tragic.

Speaker 3: 1:02:38

A couple of times I woke up in jail, woke up in places I wasn't supposed to be woke up in jail, woke up in the in the places I wasn't supposed to be, woke up in a hospital, um, but this particular um song was my 29th birthday. I was playing a show and um my hometown, and had way too many birthday shots. And woke up in the hospital the next day and apparently my buddy had dropped me off in front of my house about 5 am and um or around there and um and took off and apparently I just kept walking down the street and and stumbled into a house that I thought was mine or try to get in. I couldn't get in with my keys, um, and so I kicked the door down and it was not my home and the man that owned it shot me with a 40 cow on the chest and the arm. I was pronounced dead on the scene and I said I just sat up in the ambulance and was like what's what happened? And lucky to be here, woke up in the hospital with a few doctors saying hey man, you're the luckiest guy we've met. If you don don't know how you got here, you have a really, really hardcore problem. And I was like, yeah, I do have a problem. I need to. I don't know how I got here and I don't know what happened, but they said the path of the bullet was almost impossible. Looked like somebody grabbed it and just moved it around all my arteries and my heart and my lungs. It cl around all my arteries and my heart and my lungs.

Speaker 3: 1:04:02

I was in the hospital for two weeks, got out a day before Thanksgiving and my whole family was so mad at me that I was not invited to Thanksgiving dinner. I had to hang out by myself, no kidding. So I made my own Thanksgiving dinner and, um, and I took some across the street to to the, the man that shot me and met him, and the first thing he said to me was I'm usually a better shot, you're lucky to be here. And I was like, well, sir, you hit me twice but I, yes, very lucky to still be here and I apologize for any harm I caused you and your house.

Speaker 3: 1:04:39

I can't even imagine having to draw down on somebody and then Mr Jerry passed away A few months later. I believe it was a cardiac arrest, and it was a sad occasion, one of those things that I feel like I was. He saved my life in a way, of course, totally, because I haven't had a drop of alcohol since. That was 2014. So this will be the 10th year. I do have this weird feeling that he was kind of waiting on an opportunity to maybe kill somebody, and the fact that I was still living may have haunted him a little, and that always stuck with me, and so that idea of his ghost has always just kind of been around. Yeah, if that makes sense, and I do thank that man for saving my life.

Speaker 3: 1:05:40

Yeah, sense like and I do thank that man for saving my life and it took me years to even like want to write the story. And then, when I got around to the, to the part where I was like, how do you, how do you just tell the story, because I hadn't figured it out yet, like, how do you write that? And then one day it was COVID. Definitely, it was right after it was 20, it was right after it was 20, it was right during COVID. It was like maybe June, april, may, april, may, june, or something like COVID, something like that. It was right after, if I'm being Honest, came out that whole EP that I did with Mr Stegall and Big Machine came out. And I was sitting there one day I was like, man, just tell it in third person, just tell it, as if you're looking from the outside and you're just telling the story. And I hadn't put that in my head yet. And as soon as I did, it was like, oh, here we go, this is easy, just tell the story exactly how it happened. And then I sat on it for months because I didn't really have the music for it.

Speaker 3: 1:06:47

And then one day I started playing that little guitar riff and it was I'm pretty sure it's the music on the callback dial it's in Caddo Correctional Center Because they picked me up for trespassing.

Speaker 3: 1:07:01

It's in Caddo Correctional Center, wow, because they picked me up for trespassing, like Jerry dropped the charges but the state of Louisiana picked them back up and a few months after I got shot and got out of rehab, they came and picked my ass up and charged me with criminal trespassing. Really, and I'm pretty sure that's the call waiting toneda-da. Yeah, I'm pretty positive, something real close to that. So I was like fuck y'all Anyway. So I stole the little melody thing and I don't know if it's right on it, but it was probably pretty close and if they come after me for it, I'm going to let them and laugh at their face when they try to match it up. And it was one of the things where this man dropped the charges and they were trying to put something dirty on me and it was gross and it felt like I was being just yeah, it was different man. Yeah, that's the cat o'carrish.

Speaker 1: 1:07:56

Uh, legal system for you and this is this is exactly why, as a musician, I started backstage pass radio three, three, three years ago. Because I love the stories behind these songs and just the fact that you well, I love the story of, I love the subject of the story. It's a great story. It's not. It wasn't great to you at the time, but for the embarrassing for the listener. You know's like what a wonderful song and it's cool.

Speaker 1: 1:08:28

You know that you pick up on that melody of. You know from a, from a phone call, right? No, who would? Who would know that if they don't sit down and have this discussion with you like that little riff means absolutely nothing to anybody. And now you listen to it totally different. You know what I mean. Like I'll listen to that song totally different after this interview than I did the 13 times that I listened to it before you. And I connected Right, and I think I'm just going back to Mr Jerry. You know they say every knucklehead that has a substance abuse problem or a alcohol problem, they have to find or they have to hit their rock bottom before they wake their ass up and fix the problem. And those two bullets were your rock bottom. They had to have been your rock bottom right. He woke your ass up that day, somehow, for sure.

Speaker 3: 1:09:25

Oh my God, slap, absolutely. Yeah, um, yeah, I didn't need any more um convincing after that. I had had, like I said, a handful of situations where I should have stopped and I did quit. I quit for like a year and a half and for like 2012 to 2014 or 13, something like that, and I was was fine, I didn't need to keep drinking, I didn't need to drink again.

Speaker 3: 1:09:46

But I started drinking again for some reason, just because I thought I could handle it, thought I had it under control, and it's just one of those things like chemically. Right now I don't know what I did to my brain, but whiskey fucks it up. Yeah, I'm sure I can't control it anymore. I've like call me less of a man or so. I can't like handle my alcohol or whatever. If you knew me before I started blacking out, you understood that I could handle plenty of alcohol and it was never a problem. And then something happened, yeah, chemically in my brain to where I just absolutely couldn't drink anymore, and I don't know why. I'm kind of happy it happened, because it's kind of poison. Now, like almost a decade without it, I've never felt healthier. I feel like fine, my mind is clear, very yep. Um, absolutely. I don't have any a, it's just. Life is so much easier without it.

Speaker 1: 1:10:38

No, I, I agree, man, and you know like, I was a cigarette smoker from the age of 16 and I quit. I lost track of years, but let's just call it a decade ago, man. And, and you know, the nicotine addiction is just like a heroin addiction it's. It's hard to put down and walk away from it, but I honestly believe, while there is some dependency to that drug a lot of it is up here too Right, and if you, if you have a weak mind and you can't wrap your head around, this is killing me, like if two, if two round, two 40 cal rounds don't wake your dumb ass up, then, like you said a minute ago, you got a real fucking problem. And and if that doesn't wake it up, then it ain't ever gonna get fixed like that.

Speaker 1: 1:11:26

That would have been the end of alcohol for me, for sure. That's all it would take for me, because I I like to, you know. I mean, I just don't need to go through hell twice to to learn a lesson. Maybe I did when I was 20, but um, yeah, what a crazy story. Well, so I guess it's fair to say that this song was a. It had to be, in a certain way, a very easy right for you.

Speaker 3: 1:11:49

It was just how you were going to put it on paper, I think correct yeah, you know, once I figured out the perspective that I was gonna write it from, it got a lot easier. I still finished it and wasn't happy and wasn't, and I knew it wasn't done and, like I said, that was probably April or May um of 2020. And I want to say it was October or no, it was November of 2020 when I actually finished it with Terry Joe box and I took it into a room with Ashley McBride and Justin Ebach the day before and we wrote, accidentally drunk, and I remember playing the song for him and finishing, I was like it's not done, like I know it needs, like it needs some adjusting, it needs something. I hadn't even landed on Jerry's ghost yet, like Mr Jerry's um, I, I had the, the idea I think I said it differently or something.

Speaker 3: 1:12:41

Man, regardless, they were like, hey, that's kind of done, let's, let's write this other thing. And I was like cool. And so the very next day I was writing with terry joe box and I was like, hey, listen, ash wouldn't help me finish, so I need you to help me finish this. And so we sat in my living room for it was probably just a couple hours just ironing it all out, and I remember she was the one that did the drunk man breaks in accidentally thing, mm hmm, at the end of that line, which at the time I didn't realize it, but it tied it directly to accidentally drunk.

Speaker 3: 1:13:23

In my head the two songs now are like together and this song tells the story of what happened to this guy before and then this is the aftermath of what happened when he got accidentally drunk. Um, and so when that happened in my head I was like, oh my God, now I have to put both of these songs out and they have to go together. But no, Terry really like helped me, kind of worry at all, and put put the pieces together in a in the, the song that you hear today, and she's really, really, really good at that. She helped Ashley with Bible in a 44.

Speaker 1: 1:13:55

I love that song Great song, amazing song.

Speaker 3: 1:13:59

But I want to say it was another instance where Ash had most and Terry Joe said tell the same story. Ashley had most of it, kind of just there, and even more than you hear now. It was just a bunch of verses and her and Trick were like, hey, that's kind of done. But if you really want somebody to help you, we'd be happy to help with this amazing idea. Thank you for bringing it in.

Speaker 3: 1:14:20

And she had the same impact and influence and I felt the same way and that's the reason I went to somebody like Terry Jo Box to help me with something like that, because I understand that she's only going to try to serve the song and she's never going to try to turn and song, yeah, and she's never trying to turn any and like, take anything, any gold away that you have, she's always going to just add to it. And, um man, finding those people in town is crucial because now I know who to call when I have like an idea that I know is good, but I can't finish it myself and I just I got a few friends, I'm just like hey help me out with this, please.

Speaker 1: 1:14:54

They're the phone right. They're the ones that you call each time, right.

Speaker 3: 1:14:58

Sometimes yeah, sometimes, I wind up with a great idea, walking into a write, or the day before the write, and I say, hey, listen to this. What do you all think of this? And whoever is there just happens to be the one that I lay the idea on. But most of the time, if it's something I'm just like, absolutely in love with, I'm keeping it real tight and I'm not going to open my mouth to anybody that I think will mess it up.

Speaker 1: 1:15:25

Okay, Okay, if you drift back in your mind 10, 10 or so years ago, when, when that event took place, I think I know the answer, but I don't want to put words in your mouth. What, what does it feel like to be shot? Because I think that out of a hundred people in a room, there's probably 99 or probably even a hundred usually, that can honestly say I've never been shot in my life. So you're a rare person to say that I've been shot not only once, but twice, and I can still still sit here and tell you about the experience. Do you remember much about you know, by way of pain, or was there any pain? Or you were probably so loaded that you didn't feel it right, I'm guessing. But what do you?

Speaker 3: 1:16:10

remember about it. I have zero recollection of the actual incident. I don't have any recollection of giving my police report in the hospital. I don't even remember doing that. When I got to the hospital and I'd lost enough blood to die, my blood alcohol level was still .2 something. I had drank way too much alcohol. I should have been dead from the alcohol if not the shots, um, and so they feel like the amount of alcohol in my body probably put me into shock enough to help me come back when I did take the initial impact. Um, I don't remember any of it, bro. I don't have any PTSD with guns. I carry guns, carry guns like I have. I'm a firm believer in the second minute amendment. I apologize to the man like I would probably do the same thing if you busted up in my house.

Speaker 1: 1:17:03

Oh, you have to.

Speaker 3: 1:17:04

Yeah, of course aim at your leg or something. But I mean, you never know who's got and in streetport, louisiana and highland you have no clue who's coming through your door. So it's just one of those things where I don't hold him at fault for any of it. I'm so lucky I don't have like that memory, yeah, but I was legitimately out of my mind. I have no, no memory of it and I was fucking on morphine when I woke up for two weeks. So the pain is something I didn't feel until I was in rehab. Yeah, makes sense. And then that pain was unbearable, half the time, like I felt like I got shot through the test. You know what I mean. So right here, breathing, any kind of laughing, any kind of sudden movements or anything like that, for months was just like, oh, the arm thing wasn't as bad, it went straight through. It didn't hit any bones, it didn't hit anything important in my arm, I just had some Band-Aids. I had it wrapped up for a few weeks and then some Band-Aids, then the womb closed. I still get phantom pain shoot through my chest from the one that went through my. I'm pretty sure that's what's going on, because every once in a while I my chest from the one that went through my. I'm pretty sure that's what's going on, cause every once in a while I'll just get the sharp ass like like sting straight from the front all the way and it's like just following the path of the bullet. It feels like like the worst pain I was in was an ICU.

Speaker 3: 1:18:32

When I woke I guess I do remember a little bit of that Um, that shit sucked. And the when I woke I guess I do remember a little bit of that um, that shit sucked. And the doctor straight up told me hey, you need to want to be here, you have to fight right now. You lost way too much blood and you're on a lot of drugs right now to make you feel okay. And I was like I do not feel okay and they're like it's because you're dying. You need to really wake up and want to be here and fight. And I was like I'm here, what you talking about? I ain't going nowhere, nowhere, I'm here. I'm not about to give up on this life.

Speaker 3: 1:18:57

But that part was real painful. And then I had to go back in the hospital. They let me out after a week and I was still pushing like 50 cc's of blood from my lung and for some reason, they let me go home and so I ended up right back in the hospital and they had to put me through the surgery again. So the chest tubes that I had, I had, uh, two sets of chest tubes and there's two tubes each time, and pulling those thing out of the side of my chest, that really hurt barely. Wow, yeah, it was like, yeah, it was pretty rough, and then those wounds suck too. Man like you, gotta let all that stuff heal and yep, and it was months of of hurting. No fun, yeah, absolutely zero fun. The doctor's like you better not smoke anything for a long time, because they clipped my lung and my left lung was healing. It was. It was rough. Not only had I been shot, but I was also coming off of everything that I'd ever been on for.

Speaker 1: 1:19:57

However, long I've been on it, which is a challenge in and of itself, right.

Speaker 3: 1:20:02

Man cold turkey sobriety. Yeah, that's a rough one that hurts almost as much as the gunshots.

Speaker 1: 1:20:08

I can relate to where you're coming from, from. The mindset of the body is an interesting thing when it's traumatized. I was in a wreck back in 2013, probably right before your incident and had to get cut out of the car with the jaws of life, was knocked unconscious, broke my neck. But you know, to this to this day, dan, I don't remember. I don't remember the impact of the wreck. It's like the brain shuts down and I think, whether it's a breaking your neck in a wreck or two gunshot wounds, the body has a a phenomenal way of blocking that PTSD or that or that thought right, and we know it happened. But I never remember that truck hitting me at 60 miles an hour in my door or 50 miles, whatever they said it was, it doesn't even matter, but it's weird how the brain blocks that trauma.

Speaker 3: 1:21:10

It's a safety mechanism, I'm pretty sure 100%.

Speaker 1: 1:21:14

Well, you know, congratulations on the sobriety these days, I mean, that's, that's a big, that's a big thing, and you can't write good songs if you're not, you know, clear minded as well. So kudos to you for that.

Speaker 3: 1:21:27

Thank you, my man. I appreciate it. It does help my life, and my wife and kids are happier with me as a as a sober person, and that tells me all I need to know 100% From a songwriter perspective.

Speaker 1: 1:21:42

are you more of a lyric first writer or are you more of a melody first writer, or is it all over the place for you?

Speaker 3: 1:21:50

Man, I would say these days I'm probably more of a lyric guy first, but every once in a while a little melody will pop up in my head and I'll take off on it first, but the idea is usually the first thing that sparks whatever in my head. Um, very rarely do I just create music without the word, without the idea of a song. First, gotcha, I have done it. It is a I mean, it's a practice that I that I feel like you should do. Um, if you, if you're trying to create music, period, but these days, if I'm not writing to an idea, the music is secondary.

Speaker 3: 1:22:29

Yeah, I started creating just like some, um, some instrumental tracks, just kind of backing tracks, um, maybe some sync opportunities out there, which is which is also fun. I got this new ebo and it's what really what set me off on the exploration part of uh, just just noises, just sounds okay. And then I was like, well, what if I just did like an instrumental track and see what that sounds like and make it sound vibey and cool? And you can sell all of these things. Now you can attach an IRC code to every one of these pieces of creation that you created, okay, and put them out there for people to use and get paid for it. Okay, so songwriting these days is a little bit more open-ended when it comes to like how you can actually make a living. That's a good thing.

Speaker 1: 1:23:21

It's not one dimensional right, it's more multidimensional, which is good right For your line of work.

Speaker 3: 1:23:27

It's more multidimensional now than it ever has been 100%. There's sounds and so much content being created by people not only people, but now fucking AI bots that we will not be able to keep up with the amount of just absolute noise that life is going to require to fulfill everybody's little fucking need to be heard. You know what I mean. If you can't find your niche and what you're trying to do these days in music, then you are not trying hard enough no, I, I 100 agree, and I've, I've had several people on my show.

Speaker 1: 1:24:07

Uh, one of them is a a-list producer in hollywood and not only did he play in a in a heavy metal outfit called LA guns back in the day, but he he's a big producer for many of the big names in Hollywood and really all over the world for that matter. But as a songwriter he also has written scores for shows like the Osbournes, for family guy, for Gene Simmons, family jewels, right. And so now there's that mailbox money that every time an episode airs he's got that mailbox money coming in. Right, which is, you know, again, it's thinking outside of the box. Okay, yeah, I'm a bass player and a drummer, but how else can I monetize my talents here? Right, and he's phenomenal at what he does.

Speaker 3: 1:24:52

Yeah, be open to ideas. If you're a musician and you want to make music, go make music with everybody. All the kinds of music, like I'm a country singer, like that's what I will open my mouth. I can't help that I sound a little bit like merle, I cannot. But when it comes to writing music, I will write all the music. Yep, I will write pop song, write a rock song, write a country song. I write a classical song. I will write a song that reminds you of joni mitchell. If you want to, I will write a song that sounds like green day, if that's what you're feeling that day. Sure, fuck, yeah, yeah, make some shit up. I'm in no 100. But when it comes like what I want to put out and who I want to portray as this guy that is is an artist, um then it's country music. Well, that's your will.

Speaker 1: 1:25:34

That's your wheelhouse, that's, uh, that's stay. That's what they call staying in your lane, right? That's what you're good at, that's what you know, that's your sound, that's your demeanor like. Why change that, right? Why try to reinvent the wheel at the end of the day? Yeah, I'm not gonna do that. Correct me where I'm wrong here. Mr jerry's ghost Mr Jerry's Ghost was your first single release of 2024, correct, that's true. And then, I think back in 23, you released three singles, I believe Accidentally, drunk Only a Girl and Born and Raised on the Bayou. Am I correct there? Okay, yeah, bayou, am I correct there? Okay, and then you had a four song EP released in 2020 title, if I'm being Honest, correct, yes, sir. Did I miss anything in the catalog for Dan Smalley, because sometimes Spotify doesn't have everything that the artist has ever put out? Have I shorted you on any of the things that you've published and put out for the world to hear?

Speaker 3: 1:26:40

So you did miss one song that my voice is on, okay, um, out as me as the artist, and it's a um, creative vets collaboration called bullets and angels that I wrote with a veteran and a couple more songwriters and, and Big Machine is distributing the songs for them. I tell you what Creative Vets is something I'm proud to say I've been a part of. I'm proud to say I know these guys. They're finding veterans with PTSD and just guys who, like this specific guy, played us a video not a video, a sound clip of being pinned down on the roof of a building in Afghanistan, I believe, and the sound of what was going on was frightening enough to put chills on my skin. Frightening enough to put chills on my skin. So, being there, I cannot even fathom, can't even fathom what it felt like. And this guy is affected by his time protecting our country, of course, and still to this day. So what they're doing is they're giving these guys an outlet to tell these stories, and that's what we did. It's called Bullets and Angels and that's like.

Speaker 3: 1:28:05

One of the things he said was we woke up every day thinking, man, we might die today, and I was like, well, that's how we're starting the song out, boys, we might die today, so listen to that one. That was a good one too, but the lyrics are strong, man, and they're they're honest too, and it's it's this guy, mike's, story. And I was so honored to just be in the room and I felt like, call it what you want, I call it god. I felt the presence of something else in the room that helped us and was leading us in writing this song for us to, to help this man who needed it. Sure, and when stuff like that happens, I back up and just like let it, let it go and just say what's ever coming out of my mouth, cause it doesn't feel like it's coming from me half the time. It feels like coming from a different place. Yeah, especially when it's that quick. We wrote that song in 45 minutes to an hour, probably, hour and a half Maybe it's amazing.

Speaker 1: 1:28:55

I 45 minutes to an hour, probably hour and a half. It's amazing. I, like so many people, are YouTube junkies. I go out and do my YouTube thing right, and I've always been intrigued by the military, everything the military stands for, the structure, the honor, everything behind it. No-transcript country and I'm and I promise I'm not going to go down a rabbit hole or a soapbox, but you get where I'm coming from, right, like, until you've lived that like, you need to shut your mouth right, because that's a.

Speaker 3: 1:29:56

that's some real shit that they go through over there for sure yeah, man, there's a bunch of people that would not survive in an environment like that 100 that I don't know, maybe feel entitled to, to the lifestyle that we're privy to over here, because we have men like that that protect it for us.

Speaker 3: 1:30:16

I don't usually get along with those people very well. Yeah, my whole family military. Uh, the only reason I didn't join is because I got a titanium rod, my right leg and a broken back from football. I played too much high school football. They wouldn't take me, but right, I definitely cried, you know. So it's one of those things where you're right it takes. Those guys are have experienced something. If you've been in war, you've experienced something nobody else has. Yeah, and and it's all over the world right now. Man, it's scary dude. Yeah, um, as much as people aren't talking about I'm pretty positive. Like world war three has already started and we're just watching the beginning of it, and when we look back 50 years from now, we will have seen holy shit. Um, hopefully we don't let it all escalate to where it could go, but man, it already feels like it's halfway there in most of the world.

Speaker 1: 1:31:02

Yeah, the country's a little peaceful rock over here.

Speaker 1: 1:31:06

Yeah, the country's a mess, man, and it's. You know, just looking back 30 years ago, it just doesn't seem the same to me, you know. And granted, granted, change is inevitable, right, there's always going to be change. But yeah, just, I don't know, man, maybe it's an age thing, because I could always hear my dad saying I just don't understand this younger generation, how you people think, and I'm like, come on, dad, man, you're being closed-minded. But as I get up there in age, I'm like, holy shit, he knew what he was talking about. There in age, I'm like, holy shit, he knew what he was talking about. Like, you know what I'm saying, because he saw it change from his day as a young, 20 year old or 30 year old, and now, in his early 80s, it's like I can't, you know, I can't imagine, but it's. There's some things that are a mess that need to be straightened up.

Speaker 3: 1:31:55

For sure, one some things that are a mess that need to be straightened up for sure, 100%. Think about those people who had lived, who were born in like the early 1900s, who you know died at 100 and saw both world wars, more wars that were just kind of fucking made up, saw the industrial revolution, the great depression, the all the civil rights movements, the birth of the computer, the birth of, I mean aviation, everything right science basically has exploded.

Speaker 3: 1:32:38

Yeah, and we're in the middle of this technological era that we're still in the middle of, yeah, and it's moving so fast, yes, that we can't keep up. Now we need robots to help us keep up. I get it, and that's scary and frightening to think about, like where everything's going to be in in like five, ten years from now. If it's, if you look at the acceleration in which and uh, technology has kind of sped everything up, it's like, well, hell, a hundred years ago we were still kind of getting around in carriages, most of us and now we have cars that drive them.

Speaker 1: 1:33:16

Now, now cars drive themselves. All we got to do is just sit in them and program them and and they'll take us to, you know, from houston to nashville, right like know all the traffic signs and when to stop, when to go, when to turn. It's unbelievable how technology has changed yeah, I'm really.

Speaker 3: 1:33:33

I'm ready for teleportation, though I'm going to tell you that, like as soon as they can stop tapping us where we won't go. That's what I'm being. I'll be like all right, it's about damn time and not sit in traffic, won't that be great we're wasting too much of our lives traveling.

Speaker 1: 1:33:47

Yeah, let's, let's just get there yeah, let's, let's get there for sure. What is coming up for dan smalley in 2024 as it relates to new music that you can talk about?

Speaker 3: 1:33:59

yeah, I'm putting a whole record out. In May, may 10th, my whole record comes out. So there's two more singles coming out. The next thing was thing about things. Song I wrote my buddy, chad Wilson, um, and then the one after that is a song called you can't tell me nothing, song I wrote with uh Red Akins and Jesse uh Alexander, and then the. The title track to the record is called the state of country music. It comes out in may and I'm really excited about it. We're trying to push these singles out to kind of build a little bit of momentum. I'm trying to my target audience is between 20 and 40 000 people to release this record to and hopefully from there we can grow. But that feels like right where I'm going to be, to be honest, if I'm being honest, yeah, right.

Speaker 1: 1:34:46

Sounds like a song. Sounds like a song, if I'm being honest, right.

Speaker 3: 1:34:52

But yeah, I'm excited. I'm going to Ireland, scotland, england and Denmark in March for like a 20-day tour. That's awesome, and I think I'm going back in June for the Heartland Festival to Denmark and then I might have three trips to Denmark this year set up already and I'm coming back to my hometown and Shreveport in July and then central Louisiana also in July. Make a little run, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:35:24

Anything in the Texas area. Nothing booked in Texas.

Speaker 3: 1:35:28

Not yet.

Speaker 1: 1:35:29

Come on man.

Speaker 3: 1:35:30

I'm looking to beef up my schedule a little bit in the summertime and then fall. Really I really kind of want to. I'm hoping to land on something in the summertime, um, and then fall. Really I really kind of want to. Um, I'm hoping to land on something in the fall. That'll that'll keep me busy enough to uh get to that next record I'm ready to.

Speaker 1: 1:35:46

I'm really excited to record the next record yeah, that's exciting man all all the travel, the, the overseas tour and then the new stuff coming out in May. Talk to the listeners briefly about Dreamlined Entertainment Group and how you're engaged with them.

Speaker 3: 1:36:05

Yeah, that was my very first publisher in town. That's Keith Stegall's publishing company and there was a few people that I kind of just walked in off the street from. That was not one of them, keith. I met through one of my best buds in Shreveport, uh, hassel Teagle, and he sent him a um like EP type uh record we made in Shreveport. He sent it to Keith and Keith is like I like this guy send him my way, and so I was already making trips kind of back and forth to Nashville and so I went and met Keith and they opened their doors for me to come right and I met a guy named Brian Mayer there and Jen Jen Stegall was there, um, jacob Lida, a couple other just really really talented people um there and they took me in and as soon as we moved there in 2017, they're like hey, we want to help you, we want to give you this publishing deal and we know you're, uh, we know you want to write full-time and that you need money to pay rent.

Speaker 3: 1:37:05

So here you go and, um, they were, they're my people, they are my people. I still um look up and respect the fuck out of keith seal, one of the greatest producers, songwriters and country music, in my opinion, of all time. So to have that experience around and under those people was the beginning of getting here. I felt like it was. You know, you fall into camps and a lot of people have fallen into that camp.

Speaker 1: 1:37:37

Okay, and when they first get here and a lot of those people are very successful, If my memory serves me correctly, it seems like some years back I was reading about him. Wasn't he associated with, like Randy Travis and Alan Jackson and probably the list goes on and on and on, but he was tied to Mercury Records, if I remember correct. Does that sound familiar to you Like was he an A&R guy or headed up A&R for Mercury or something like that? Am I off base?

Speaker 3: 1:38:10

No, no, no, that's right, he was a producer On the other hand for Randy Travis, which I believe got him the whole deal for the record that I believe he then passed to Scott Hendricks maybe, and then Alan and I believe Scott worked Sorry, keith, and Scott worked with Alan, I believe too, and then that just ended up being Keith and Alan, and so it was almost. I don't know, yeah, but the A&R thing was, I believe he was, he had put out his record, he had had cuts, um at that point I'm pretty sure he'd create. He made a solo record, um that he put out um in the early 80s, and then he was still writing and then, I'm pretty positive, he got the A&R job at Mercury and helped a bunch of people out, I bet, I bet, really helped people out. And man, the music that they created from then till now, even Alan's last record is great in my opinion. It's country music and that's what they do best, man, absolutely the best at making that country music and um.

Speaker 3: 1:39:23

And if you're paying attention, there are generations of greatness that have come through this town and a lot of them were fed by the generation before them, oh for sure, where they even got a shot for sure, and I'm just trying to eat, man. I'm trying to get here and learn as much as I can from all these legends. From all the legends I can get around. You know what I mean, every single one of them. I just want to, like, just just touch them and feed off of be a sponge.

Speaker 1: 1:39:53

you got to be a sponge. You know and just absorb all the wisdom and the knowledge of the industry, Right, and if your mind is open to that, you'll go. You'll go places, but when you start thinking you know at all, that's when you know you hit a roadblock. You're going to hit that roadblock that nobody wants to hit. So keep those, keep those eyes open. I don't think I have to preach to you, Right? You seem like you're on your.

Speaker 3: 1:40:15

you got your stuff together there to learn and I'm literally learning so much about this business every single day that it's like giving me a headache. I bet all beginning changing man. So as soon as you think you know how something goes, it changes the next day. You gotta jump to the hoop and um and and figure out a way to keep on keeping on surviving they say change is the only constant.

Speaker 1: 1:40:38

So where can the listeners find you on social media, Dan?

Speaker 3: 1:40:43

Everywhere, all over the place. I'm on every single place. You can find music, all of it. You can Google me. Okay, I'm Google-able, google-able. Put in, dan Smalley, I should pop up in Google me. Okay, I'm Googleable, googleable. So, put in, dan Smalley, I should pop up in Google. Sounds good. And when you put it in iTunes and Spotify and all those good places too, I believe I'm still the most popular Dan Smalley on all of those platforms, so I should be the one at the top, right on.

Speaker 1: 1:41:12

Right on, right on. Well, dan, listen. It's been a blast getting to know you and certainly learning more about your music career. I look forward to the new material coming out later this year and I wish you continued success on your musical journey. And if I'm in Nashville, maybe we can grab a lunch sometime. I know you're a busy guy, but try to get up there a couple of times a year and, for the listeners out there, make sure you go. Check out Dan and and all things Dan Smalley on his social media handles. Download that music by the records, dan real quick. While I'm thinking about it, is there a? Uh, is there a merch site for you somewhere that we can mention here or not?

Speaker 3: 1:41:54

so much I have a website Danmalleeofficialcom wwwdansmalleeofficialcom and I don't have any merchandise on it right now. I'm revamping my merchandise and it was much needed, and so, as the record is coming out, there will be merchandise to follow, for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:42:15

Good to know and I always like to point that out. I know that the merch is a important lifeline or an important fabric, you know, in the lives of a musician, right, it helps pay the bills and whatnot. So I like to mention that, if I can, for you guys.

Speaker 3: 1:42:31

It definitely helps pay the bills. Yeah, any opportunity to you that you get to put money directly into the artist or the band or whoever is trying to make a living doing what we're doing, instead of streaming. I mean, streaming is one thing, but honestly, to really help out an artist with streaming, you would probably have to make a playlist of all their songs and set it on, go and just let it run 24 hours a day to really make a difference in an artist's career, unless that artist has millions of listeners. So any opportunity to buy an actual record, albums, any kind of merchandise like that shows, really, if you get an opportunity to go see an artist live, that's going to be the biggest payoff for them. Obviously, following them on social every single social media platform matters these days, and really a lot more so than it used to, to be honest with you. But, man, I'm looking for as many people as I can to entertain, to, to, to follow me in this journey of making music and try to keep up, because this is the very beginning of it. Now, yeah, after 20 years of doing this, I finally get to begin. Yeah, and um, it's exciting. I'm really excited about it and I really hope that I I can generate the excitement around me to keep it going, because I have records of music that I have to record. I have to make it and I will make it happen somehow. I'm really excited about the future, especially this record.

Speaker 3: 1:44:12

Country Music is something I fought actual legal battles to get from a record company and waited years after I created it to find the distribution deal, invest all the money into it to put it out myself independently. So it's something I'm extremely proud of and I hope people love it as much as I do. But, to be honest with you, I haven't heard heard anything but good things about all the stuff I put out, um, from everybody that loves me. So that's all I'm, all I'm looking for and, to be quite honest, if I can be like blunt, I fucking love this record. I don't give a shit what anybody thinks about it. Like, I love the music we made and I think if you can't say that for the art that you're making, about the art that you're making, if you're not absolutely a hundred percent in love with it, then you should probably throw it away no.

Speaker 1: 1:45:10

But well, it's like anything, dan. It's like how can other people love you if you don't love yourself? And that that sounds egotistical. But if you don't love the music that you're making, how can other people love you if you don't love yourself? And that sounds egotistical. But if you don't love the music that you're making, how can you get excited and sell it? At the end of the day, at the end of every day, we're all salespeople and we're selling something. You're selling one widget, I'm selling another widget, but you have to be excited about them. And I mean, if I tried to sell you this knife and I was like, hey, dan, will you buy this knife? You know that's so lackluster like, really, randy, I'm not going to buy it. You're not even excited. You, I don't even think that knife would cut anything based on the way. You just said that you know what I'm saying. So if you're not excited about the music and said that you know what I'm saying, so if you're not excited about the music and the toils of your efforts, like, like, who else is going to get behind that? Nobody will. And and and to just come, come over the top.

Speaker 1: 1:46:06

You know, we talked a little bit about the social media stuff and the streams and all of that. I want to reiterate this to the listeners. It it sounds so trivial, but every time you guys can go out to my podcast Dan's music and like and share that stuff. It doesn't cost you a penny to do this, but it helps us exponentially grow. Right and and that was the idea behind the show Dan is as a musician out of Cypress, texas. How can I have guys like Dan Smalley on my show? And if I give you a platform to talk on and you get five new listeners out of this show, that's five more you didn't have two days ago. Right? That's how I look at that, right, and then if those five people go out and share your website, now you've got 10.

Speaker 1: 1:47:00

It's the power of networking that people don't realize that by clicking on that share button for my episodes, it helps just blow the show up, right and and the same with your music, or the same with anything that somebody's I hate to use the word peddling. I mean, I think it's. What we're bringing is value to people. You're bringing valuable music. I'm bringing valuable content that these people are getting to know who the hell Dan Smalley is and hear about a fantastic song that you just released and and it costs our listeners and our our tuner enters nothing to share and like this stuff right and to download it.

Speaker 1: 1:47:40

I mean hell, even if you're not going to listen to it, cue it up and turn the volume down right. If nothing else, that's what I tell my wife. It's tongue-in-cheek. I tell Terry all the time even if you don't listen to my podcast, at least cue it up and play it and turn the volume down right. Give me that one more stream right. That's what helps me get better guests, bigger guests, cooler guests, whatever keep guests coming in in general. It's. It's what it's all about.

Speaker 3: 1:48:07

I mean, you got to do it so yeah, man, you're up against an algorithm these days like it's big time not human's choice on whether or not you get to succeed in what you do. It's a computer, one, now that looking at an algorithm and judging whether or not you are important.

Speaker 1: 1:48:21

Yep and it's disheartening. Good luck, humans, yeah, yeah, it's, uh, it's disheartening, but again, thanks so much for your time, man. It's, it's been cool catching up with you. It's probably two hours of your life. You'll uh, you'll never get back, but I think the listeners are going to really enjoy the I really did.

Speaker 3: 1:48:39

I appreciate it and thank you for, uh, being patient with me and and rescheduling and letting me hang up on you. All good, all good, all good. Pleasure catching up with you and getting to know you, sir, yeah likewise hang out soon.

Speaker 1: 1:48:53

Yeah, right on, I, uh. I also ask the listeners to like, share and subscribe to the podcast on facebook at backstage pass radio, twitter at backstage pc and on instagram at backstage pass radio thanks so much for joining us.

Speaker 2: 1:49:07

We hope you enjoyed today's episode of backstage pass radio. Make sure to follow randy on facebook and instagram at r Randy Halsey music and on Twitter at our Halsey music. Also make sure to like, subscribe and turn on alerts for upcoming podcasts. If you enjoyed the podcast, make sure to share the link with a friend and tell them backstage pass radio is the best show on the web for everything music. We'll see you next time right here on backstage pass radio.