S6: E3: Susan Hickman: An Odyssey of Sound and Soul

Speaker 1: 0:46

My guest this evening came up in a task asita up in the northeast Houston area but now calls Dickinson, texas home. It's Randy Holsey with backstage pass radio and I am joined by a Fantastic female country artist who has shared the stage with artists like Robert Earl Keen, dean Dillon and Miranda Lambert. Hang tight and I will have Susan Hickman join me right here in the Crystal Vision studio when we come back.

Speaker 2: 1:13

This is backstage pass radio, the podcast that's designed for the music junkie with a thirst for musical knowledge. Hi, this is Adam Gordon, and I want to thank you all for joining us today. Make sure you like, subscribe and turn alerts on for this and all upcoming podcasts. And now here's your host of backstage pass radio, randy Holsey.

Speaker 1: 1:42

Finally you're here. It's like I've been hearing about Susan Hickman for years now and I finally have you here in the Crystal Vision studio. Welcome.

Speaker 3: 1:52

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:53

It's great to see you. I'm excited about you being here and you have a guitar in tow, so I'm guessing that we're gonna get treated to maybe some live music tonight.

Speaker 3: 2:04

We can make that happen.

Speaker 1: 2:06

I don't have to twist your rubber arms too far back, right?

Speaker 3: 2:10

Oh my goodness. Yeah, I'd be happy to you.

Speaker 1: 2:12

Well, I'm glad you're here and I wanted to maybe go back a few years. You were born in Clear Lake and kind of grew up in the Atasca seat, a part of town. At a young age you had discovered an interest in the piano and the violin. Where did that interest in Becoming an instrumentalist come from? Was there somebody in the family that got you interested?

Speaker 3: 2:41

So I've loved music ever since I was teeny tiny. I Actually wanted to start playing guitar. That was. That was the first instrument that I ever touched and picked up. My mom had an old guitar. I think it only had like three or four strings on it. It was never tuned, it was. It was just a guitar that she had and you know, I expressed interest in wanting to learn. But I was still like really, really tiny, like I was five, and when we kind of decided that I was gonna get into music lessons and my mom wanted me to start on piano, because I think she thought fundamentally, you know, everything's laid out in front of me, you know, might be easier to learn, or, you know, and be taught that way. So we started there and then I progressed to the violin, which I love, violin, I love playing violin so much and then I actually didn't start playing guitar.

Speaker 3: 3:37

I bought my first guitar when I was 19 and so Kind of right right, yeah later on and I don't know why I never just went and bought a guitar, and just you know. Sure started that earlier because it was such a passion of mine. They actually bought my sister a guitar and I was so jealous and she wouldn't even let me touch it. And it's really funny because now that guitar, Now that we're older and you know we're way nicer to each other now.

Speaker 3: 4:05

That always happens, I know, I mean she's always been like my best friend, you know, but like your siblings, you know, you fight like cats and dogs sometimes, but she actually gave me that guitar. Oh so that's, it hangs in my music room and it's like I'm like oh, I can pick it up whenever I want to.

Speaker 1: 4:21

Now that's so awesome I know she's the best.

Speaker 1: 4:23

Well, I know that the piano is laid out kind of in a linear fashion and it's I think it's visually more palatable to learn it. Then the guitar. I still struggle learning the guitar, but I grew up as a pianist myself, right? So I was always used to seeing octave, octave, octave, octave. But on a guitar neck, it's different. So it's hard to wrap your head around that. But it's interesting that you know. I think it's pretty common for kids to gravitate To piano lessons. It's, it's very common. But why the violin? Where did the violin come from?

Speaker 3: 5:02

I always wanted to play violin. I like I've always been drawn to stringed instruments. They're my favorite. I love violin, I love guitar, I love cello. I love those just dark, moody type of you know I love. I grew up listening to classical music. To like classical, like what? Actually everything. We listen to everything. But to help me sleep at night I would put on classical music.

Speaker 3: 5:24

Okay and so I think I was like like 12 or 12 or 13 when I started violin and I really really loved it. But it's funny like different instruments have different learning curves. I feel like, and I feel like your instrument kind of picks you. So I I've written songs, I've I've you know you know, done the whole song or anything from a very young age and I feel like I didn't even Scratch the surface of what I could do until I started playing guitar.

Speaker 3: 5:56

So interesting and yeah, and I'm, you know, I'm self-taught on guitar. I actually didn't really even understand music theory until I started playing guitar. Okay, and I don't know what something, something clicked one day and it was like, oh my gosh, this makes sense. Yeah, and I think a lot has to do with my guitar player at the time, danny Klotz. He's amazing. He taught me how to Understand the Nashville number system, mm-hmm and you know I knew about, you know the number system and charts and you know Everybody had him and you know it was just always around, but I I didn't know what it was.

Speaker 3: 6:31

Of course and I didn't know how to understand it and he like in one like teeny, tiny, simple conversation. It's like everything just clicked Mm-hmm and I was like I never understood why. Why is this song in the key of G and what makes it to this? I because for me, the piano, you have 88 keys that are just laid out in front of you, like you were saying, and it's just like it's just all there and you see it, and you like I, and I play by ear.

Speaker 3: 6:59

Mm-hmm to sure and my piano teacher and my violin teacher didn't really realize that I could play by ear.

Speaker 1: 7:07

They would play something and then I would play it back and they just that I was reading the Reading the notes and I wasn't yeah, well, I guess the the Nashville numbering system is the, you know the music theory, the ones fours and fives, right, and that's how you know if you're in the key of E, what the fourth and fifth is and you know. So, yeah, I mean a lot of people play by the Nashville numbering system. I don't, I just kind of learn the songs by memory and and go from there. But I think for people that sit in with bands and kind of Improvise along the way, if you know that Nashville numbering system, I think it's very helpful and that for sure my lead guitarist, chris, can do that Like he could go sit in with you tomorrow night.

Speaker 1: 7:51

And, of course, the leads are gonna be different than what you're used to hearing, but it's all gonna like Be magic right. It's gonna sound amazing and it's gonna be all in the right key.

Speaker 3: 8:02

You know.

Speaker 1: 8:02

But you, if you know, again, if you know a little bit about music theory, you know you can go in and sit in, but just about anybody.

Speaker 3: 8:09

Yeah, I think that that's so cool Because I mean, when that all clicked for me, it's like, oh, this is like it's universal. You know, you can, you can sit down and you can look at a chart and be like, okay, I know this song now exactly.

Speaker 1: 8:21

Yeah, well, I'm kind of starting to see the the Heather Raylene Bond guitar violin, right and, and I think just music in general, right, and I know you guys are pretty tight, it's like wait a minute. All these girls are violin people and their guitar people, so they got a lot in common, right?

Speaker 1: 8:39

Yeah, she plays piano too, yeah of course it's interesting what you get to know about people when you just talk or just listen in general. I don't remember if you said it or not, but do you have family members that were Were musically inclined, or were they just maybe end takers or lovers of music that maybe Sparked a musical interest, or did you actually have family members that play, that were instrumentalist?

Speaker 3: 9:07

so on my mom's side of the family, like so my mom, my mom, sings and she played piano and she actually taught me a lot about how to sing harmony and, you know, we would practice with hymns. She would sing the lead and then she would sing, you know, either the third or the fifth or sure and she taught me that, which I love, because harmony is probably one of my favorite things ever. Like I love singing harmony behind people.

Speaker 1: 9:34

It's amazing if it's done right. Yeah, exactly, exactly, and.

Speaker 3: 9:38

And so but but my mom's side of the family, everybody sings, everybody sings, and a lot of them do play piano. Piano was pretty like that was a fundamental Thing there's had to do it in your house.

Speaker 1: 9:51

Well, I mean yeah.

Speaker 3: 9:52

I mean everybody. There was always just a piano in the house and everybody just kind of sat around and you know, would you know sing hymns or you know whatever?

Speaker 3: 10:00

my, my grandfather is a Nazarene minister, so there was a lot of singing and a lot of court and you know she, my mom, she has two sisters and a brother, so they had just four part harmonies all the time. So it was amazing. Sure, my dad side of the family, dad, isn't musical but he is the biggest music fan You'll ever meet in your whole life. He's amazing, his brother, ronnie Hickman. He was the the guitar player and the singer. He did a lot of rock music back in the day. He's kind of. He's kind of gravitated over the years to more like that chicken-picking type of bluegrass, he type style and he actually has a record out and it's all like train songs really Interesting so my whole dad side of the family.

Speaker 3: 10:43

Like all the men they they worked for the railroad. Okay so you have to look up that it's. I think it's train smoke and dreams, or Ronnie Hickman.

Speaker 1: 10:52

Ronnie Hickman Okay.

Speaker 3: 10:53

Yeah, but it's like one of my favorite records. It's just cool bluegrass like train song like our own, and why is that how he spells his name. Okay, I'll definitely do that. He's amazing.

Speaker 1: 11:04

That's what I love about the show. You know you get turned on to To new things and you're like, wow, I didn't know that I would like such a Genre or such a song or such an artist or whatever, right? So it really. It really opens up your mind and makes you think outside like I'm a classic rock guy by nature and I think, going out and playing many shows and the greater Houston area for years now, you have to bring a little more than just one genre to the table.

Speaker 1: 11:34

When you're a duo, right, you have to have a little country. It's a little variety, right? So I really had to force my mind into opening up to Americana and Classic country or red dirt and I love it. I like I've fallen in love with all of it. But for the longest time I just kind of I didn't resent it. But I just resisted it because I didn't have to like it, I didn't have to know it. But I Love that part or this part of the show because I'm Open by default, because I want to hear different types of artists on the show what I think.

Speaker 3: 12:08

Nowadays, with the, you know the whole streaming Platforms and you can find so much music that you never would have even understood existed.

Speaker 1: 12:18

I agree.

Speaker 3: 12:19

I have found so many really cool artists and bands just from like going down a rabbit hole of you know A certain artist, radio you know and it it puts in those those cool other like just random songs and it's I follow a lot of people because of that.

Speaker 1: 12:35

And.

Speaker 3: 12:35

I never would have known about them otherwise.

Speaker 1: 12:38

Well, you know where this show has really what's happened is. I had who was? Oh so I had the drummer of a 80s rock band, europe. They had a big song called the final countdown. It was a huge song in the 80s and they're from Sweden and Once I got latched into them, I started hearing more and more of these artists from Finland and Sweden.

Speaker 1: 13:03

And there is some amazing Musicians all over the world. It's not just here and I've had those people on my show. I've had people from New Zealand on my show and it's amazing that so many similarities in the music around the world the hard rock it's a lot like it is here and it's amazing that you get turned on to those types of artists. But you would never have heard that 30 years ago because there was no internet back in the day. So it's really cool the exposure that we have and Vice versa. The people in Sweden have access to your music, right. You can be heard Now in many countries where, as 20 years ago, you couldn't have been heard, but maybe locally right here in the area, right.

Speaker 3: 13:47

Yeah, for sure. I think that that's incredible and it's so powerful because you can, literally you can reach someone Completely, you know, on the other side of the world, just like that. I love in a flash, in a flash.

Speaker 1: 13:59

Well, from a vocalist perspective, when did you discover your voice and Know that you had the ability To actually sing, right? I think a lot of people think they can sing, but they really can't. But when did you figure out that? Wow, my voice is kind of special and I can be a great vocalist.

Speaker 3: 14:21

Um, I think I was pretty young. I mean, it's hard to pinpoint exactly when that kind of started to shift, but since I was always singing from a very, very, very young age and you know, I would, I would, I would hold my, my friends and my family and my, my, my parents, like all of their adult friends, like a lot of times my sister and I were the only kids because we were pretty well behaved, I have to say, very good kids, of course but a lot of times we were the only kids, you know, and I would, I would hold everybody hostage and be like okay we're gonna have a.

Speaker 2: 14:57

We're gonna have a concert, you know.

Speaker 3: 14:59

I would only sing like a song or two, but I get, I would. I would make myself a little stage out of phone books. I'm aging myself there.

Speaker 1: 15:06

I sure homeboats. What are those says? I don't even know what you're talking about.

Speaker 3: 15:10

But, um, and I, you know I'd sing a couple of songs and but I don't know, I feel like. So, when I was 12, I Was watching an award show and it's when Leanne Rimes, like, was just now coming out, like she, and she got on there and she sang and chain melody. I Remember the, the way that people were talking about her and I remember the way that, like, even my dad was like this girl's amazing Mm-hmm. And I remember I remember myself going well, okay, she's like 14 years old, if she can do it, of course I can do it, I can sing. And I don't think it's like one of those things where, like, people would tell me oh, you're really good, you sing this song really good, you know, I sing in church and you know I would. You know I was just always singing and and so I I went to my parents and I said this is what I want to do, this is what I want my career to be.

Speaker 3: 16:10

And my mom always had this funny way of I don't know, like communicating back to something that I wanted to do. She's like okay, well, if you want to do it, just prove to me that you're gonna do it. I'm like how do I do? I have no idea what that even means. And so I took that and I went and disassembled my stage and I got in the phone book and I started writing down all of the talent agencies and anything from music to acting to all of that, like I didn't care about being an actress or anything like that. But there was a lot of crossover type of things in the entertainment industry and I made appointments and I gave my mom that list and I was like this is what we're gonna do.

Speaker 1: 16:53

That's pretty amazing. Like I was gonna ask you what does a 12 year old know about a talent agency? First of all, like you had to have heard this somewhere. But that's pretty amazing that you were inspired enough to even be thinking about a quote unquote career, a career move at the age of 12. Like I don't even think I could wake up to my own alarm at 19 years old, let alone be talking to talent agencies at like 12, that's pretty amazing.

Speaker 3: 17:23

And I'm surprised that they even gave me the appointments, because I mean, I mean, even as an adult, I feel like I have a child voice anyway, I mean, I was a kid man, so 12 years old.

Speaker 3: 17:37

yeah, I was making appointments and I've, yeah, but my mom and dad, they sat me down there like, okay, well, if this is what you wanna do, then we will do this with you. And it was actually like we even had the conversation about okay, do you wanna even go to college? Do you want us to help you pursue this? Do you want what is your path? Like, what do you wanna do? And so we started going through that, the agency process. We spent a lot of money. A lot of it was a waste of time, but it was the experience and we learned what not to do, and I feel like that sometimes is just as valuable as getting the green light.

Speaker 1: 18:16

Well, of course, yeah. So, it's called learning from your mistakes, right, yeah, and you don't ever repeat those mistakes, so at least you try not to repeat them.

Speaker 3: 18:25

Try not to, yeah, you fail forward.

Speaker 1: 18:27

Well, it's interesting because I think a lot of times parents will live vicariously through their kids. Ie, let's say, dad was a pretty good baseball player back in the day. Well, they pushed their kid into playing all the you know elites baseball leagues and travel clubs and all that in hopes that they're gonna get to this higher level right. So they live vicariously through that kid by pushing them up the ladder. And when you said something about the talent agencies, I was wondering was this something that was being pushed from a parent? But it doesn't sound like it. It was being pushed from the kid perspective at the time which is usually not the case, right.

Speaker 3: 19:11

True, very true, and I think it's very important for, like, I don't have any children, but when that time comes, like I think it's very important to be able to, obviously, like, guide your children to you know and you know, to try to help them cultivate what they actually really want to do.

Speaker 1: 19:31

Of course.

Speaker 3: 19:32

Cause I feel like I don't know. I've seen it more times than I even want to even think about just these kids that they don't they. I feel like a lot of parents. They want to make sure that their kids just don't quit things Of course. And there's that, and then there's do they even want to do it? You know.

Speaker 1: 19:51

Well, there's a lot of that too. I think it's important to allow the kid to play. Just speaking of sports right, or even music to play. If your kid came to you and said I want to play the blues harp, right, some parents would say, well, that's a dumb instrument, you need to play the guitar or whatever. You should allow them to go down that path and see if it's going to stick. I mean, they could be the next greatest you know harmonica player, just like they could be the next great guitar player. If you allow my point being is, you can't decide the path that the kid is going to go down, whether it's sports. You know we're a big hockey family and I encourage my boys to play hockey, but I never forced them to play.

Speaker 1: 20:41

It's like I want you to play if you love the sport. If you don't go play baseball, go play whatever else. So it's good to let the parent or let the kid just go and choose their own path, so to speak, and it sounds like that's kind of the idea you have when you have kids you're going to hopefully allow them to do those things and not live vicariously through that kid right.

Speaker 3: 21:06

I mean I would be completely thrilled if they wanted to I don't know pursue anything musical. I know it's a hard life, it's very, oh, it's crazy, but I mean they're going to grow up in a musical house. So I mean they're going to definitely have access to it.

Speaker 1: 21:22

Well, they're going to get it by default.

Speaker 1: 21:24

And I was just having this conversation with somebody the other day. It seems like such. It seems like such a glamorous life, but it's so and I don't make a living in music. I always like to preface my conversations. I do something else for a living. But even though I play a lot of shows, I don't rely on music money to pay my bills.

Speaker 1: 21:48

But it's a grind for you guys that go out and make a living doing this, because you have artists that are out playing for little to nothing. So it's driving the cost, driving the pay down that you guys get in these venues and you're fighting just to keep that pay up. You know, let's just say, if it's $500 to play whatever and somebody comes and says, well, I'll do it for 100. Now they've lowered the bar for you and everybody else to follow. So the next person that tries to negotiate with that restaurant owner or whatever oh well, we just had Jim in here last week for $100.

Speaker 1: 22:30

Why are you not? And now you have to try to articulate your value. Well, I've got this single, that single. I was named this, I was named that. But some of them are like, okay, well, they may not care. So that's what I'm saying. It can be a grind and there's people out there that are kind of forcing it to be a grind. It can be a grind all on its own, but it doesn't help when others are out there making it more of a grind than it really needs to be.

Speaker 3: 22:57

I mean yes, and I all too often get on that soapbox with my own friends and I tell them you have to know your worth. Of course you have to understand that the cost of living, when that goes up, your value, all of your experience, all of your equipment, all of the songs that you've written, all of your accomplishments, all of those things, if you were at a regular nine to five or whatever regular job, would you go two, three years without asking for a raise?

Speaker 1: 23:34

Of course.

Speaker 3: 23:35

Would you go five years? Would you go 10 years? I know some people that are still playing for the same money that they have been playing since they started. Sure, and knowing your value, that's a huge thing. And I've struggled with this over the years because and I don't wanna play the W card but being a woman in the music business is real tough, really tough. You know, you get the stereotype things like oh, it's a woman, she can't sell tickets, she can't fill seats, she can't you know. Oh, she's gonna be pitchy, she's gonna have a screechy voice, like I've heard everything and so I'm never really surprised anymore and I know what to say. And you constantly kinda you have to just like, you have to be like your own, like best salesman Of course you do.

Speaker 3: 24:23

Just like constantly selling yourself on and it's like you know what. You just give me a chance and if you don't like what's going on, Don't hire me back, don't hire me back, and I will never call you again, and luckily that's never happened.

Speaker 1: 24:36

But Well, and I agree with you 100%, and I'm in sales for a living right, and it doesn't matter what the widget is that you're selling, whether it's your voice or your guitar, your music, or, in my case, I work for an IT consulting firm, right? So I sell major corporations, networks, security, things like that, right. And I have competition out there, just like you know. You and I could kind of be competition in a way, right, if you think about it, if a venue needs a musician one night and it's between me and you, they could look at just the money and say, oh well, randy's less money than Susan and just hire me just because I'm cheaper. Well, that's not really fair, right? So my point being is you have to know your worth, you have to know how to sell your worth. We're all salespeople, at the end of the day, and you don't just because you play a guitar. You still gotta sell a product, and that product is yourself.

Speaker 3: 25:34

You agree with that right For sure. And like you're talking about, like the competitive nature and all of that, Like I feel like there's enough shows and venues and all of that for everyone and it'll all go around.

Speaker 1: 25:45

Absolutely.

Speaker 3: 25:47

And I feel like when we talk to each other and come up with like really valid, like solutions to some of these issues and problems, that's when you really, that's when you really like your music community and your people, that's when you grow Sure. And if you're, I feel like, if you're aware of what your value is, then that confidence is going to show through to the venue and the talent buyer or whoever whatever is going on, and they're gonna be like okay, cool, well then we can put some dollars behind advertising or we can push this a little bit more, because we know that there's gonna be that professional confidence that's gonna come through. And, to be honest, like I don't think I've ever said this out loud on a, you know, on a podcast or any kind of interview, but sometimes when you I don't know if demand is the right word but if you're commanding what your value is, I feel like you're gonna be taken a lot more seriously.

Speaker 1: 26:48

Well, of course, yeah, they're yeah, of course. I agree with that 100%.

Speaker 3: 26:52

Yeah, I mean, I don't know how else to put it, but if you're like, this is what I have, this is what I have to offer, and I know my value, we can do the show and it'll be great one way or the other. I mean, sometimes you don't have exactly how many people you want in a venue, but some, you know a lot of people talk. If they've had a good time, they're gonna keep, they're gonna keep going, and then we're gonna.

Speaker 1: 27:15

Yeah, well, I had hired a CPA some years back and I had never used a CPA in the past, but I had taken some money from some different accounts and I knew that it was not gonna be my typical IRS filing and I didn't wanna get in trouble with the IRS, right. So I said let me hire a professional. So I reached out to a CPA and they said well, it's gonna be X amount of dollars and I immediately said, oh well, that's high. Well, I don't know why I said that, because I have nothing to benchmark that off of.

Speaker 1: 27:49

So if you put the bar owner or the restaurant owner that's what they say immediately when we stayed at a price to play oh well, that's high. So I went back to the CPA and I said, well, is there any way that you could do it for this amount of money? And he went on to tell me I graduated cum laude from University of Texas, blah, blah, blah, and I worked with these clients and basically he said these are the reasons why I charge X amount of dollars. And the short answer is no. I'm not coming down to what you're asking. You can either do it at this price or you can go find another CPA to work with and we as musicians or we as salespeople, have to be willing to say this is my value and stand behind that value with confidence and pride, but be willing to walk all at the same time and go find another bar or restaurant to play at. That will see the value in you.

Speaker 3: 28:49

Being an artist and being a creative person. I mean, you always get excited when you book shows and you do so. It's a lot, I don't know. A lot of the time I feel like it is hard to walk away. We're like, okay, well, but I try to kind of like approach it from all right, well, maybe you're not a venue that hires those type of situations. You can always get a sponsor.

Speaker 3: 29:13

You can always, you know, I'll kind of like put those ideas and a lot of times they'll be like, oh, I never thought of that. I'm like, yeah, you could get a sponsor to take care of your whole music calendar if you wanted to Of course. Or several sponsors.

Speaker 2: 29:27

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 29:28

You know, if you wanna approach it from hey, we're doing a live music series and approach it anytime you put a different kind of spin other than hey, we just have live music.

Speaker 1: 29:39

Yes.

Speaker 3: 29:40

Or just put something interesting behind it. I mean, it's simple and it gets people talking and it gets people excited.

Speaker 1: 29:47

It's called creative marketing at the end of the day, right? Yes, yes, and a lot of people I don't think a lot of people understand that some musicians are more successful than others because they understand the business and the marketing side, whereas there's some that just don't get that. And literally I can show you my schedule right now in the studio, chris and I are booked for all of 2024.

Speaker 2: 30:17

All the way through.

Speaker 1: 30:18

December of next year and people that play for a living have often asked me how do you do that? It's? I just go and I say this is what I need and I ask for that. I create the ask and they're either gonna say yes or no. But some of these venues I've established myself in over the years, so I feel like I'm in a position to ask those venues. Will you do this for me?

Speaker 3: 30:48

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 30:48

Now you walk in and play. You know some bar down the street. One time you're probably not gonna be able to go in and say I need you to book me for a year in advance. There's gonna have to be some establishment there, right?

Speaker 2: 31:01

For sure.

Speaker 1: 31:02

But my point is you carry the business. You have to carry the business aspect into music. It's not just about sitting on a stool and being a great singer, it's a whole business. And a lot of people don't get that, and I think that's the oversight. They find out that, okay, well, I've been a great singer and a great guitar player, but I have no idea how to book a show. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to negotiate. There's so many business aspects that a lot of artists don't know. Now, a lot of them are great at it, but there are some that have no clue. The business side For sure.

Speaker 3: 31:40

I mean going back to when I first kind of started getting into the business and all of that. Like my mom and I, we went to the library and we checked out every single book that we could find on music, business, contracts, law, this, that, how to act in public, how to act on everything. Because I mean, she told me she's like, if we're doing this, this is a business, this is your career and this is what you're gonna do. And it's not a joke and it's not a game. And yes, there are very, very fun rewarding. They're the highs, or ultimate highs. But then again, like the lows.

Speaker 2: 32:21

There's lows too. Right, the lows are.

Speaker 1: 32:22

Really though.

Speaker 3: 32:23

Yeah, and being a creative, really like a very hypersensitive I mean, I feel like I'm very empathetic, so I feel a lot you know Of course, and so those highs are really high and it's just like this is the best thing in the world. But then you know you feel the downs and you have to kind of figure out how to balance that, because you gotta find a plateau in there and keep it.

Speaker 1: 32:48

Yeah well, it sounds like you had a great mentor that said you know, if we're gonna do this, Susan, we're gonna do it the right way. We're gonna do it the way it should be done, and that's great, because I don't think a lot of people probably had that guidance. They just went out and started trying to, I guess, recreate the will for a lack of a better term. They didn't know. So they said, well, let me just go and fail and then I'll learn from failure.

Speaker 2: 33:13

Right.

Speaker 1: 33:14

So, which is there's nothing wrong with that at all, but it's the school of hard knocks. We hear about that term all of our lives. I went through the school of hard knocks. Well, maybe you didn't have that mentor like that you did that said. You know, hey, if you do this you're gonna like make life a lot easier on yourself than the person that doesn't go read the books in the library and just goes out and tries to figure it all out on their own. So, yeah, good for you, you had a great mentor. But I did wanna go back to the you mentioned about the agency earlier and I was gonna ask you today do you do all of your stuff on your own, or do you use agencies to help you do marketing or social media, or do you just kind of keep that all in house for Susan Hickman?

Speaker 3: 34:00

So I mean, obviously, like I'm in control of my entire career, I'm. The book stops here. But through the years I've had different team members come on at certain times for certain lengths of time, like anyone from radio promoters to publicists to assistants to people to just kind of like pick up some slack if I need help on social media or whatnot.

Speaker 3: 34:34

I'm getting kind of closer to having a little bit more Like. I have several different booking agencies. That they're not exclusive but we have. Every now and then we'll do shows or a talent buyer will call for a festival or something like that. But I do not have a dedicated person for booking. That is me. We're working on that right now. I'm working with a new relationship we're kind of forming right now with getting some more management aspects of my career kind of handled.

Speaker 1: 35:07

So we're working on that right now. Okay, good, well, you had mentioned that violin piano. You started that young and then years later, I think around 19, in the 19, 2021 timeframe, you got the guitar. You kind of latched onto the guitar and I know you brought a guitar. So I was wondering if you would maybe share a song live with the listeners.

Speaker 3: 35:32

For sure. Yeah, I can do that. Great, let's do it. Okay, All right, this song is called Moss to a Flame sak Demo.

Speaker 4: 36:07

You walked right in and you wrecked me I to the bed like a child. You said all the right things no, I never meant to fall. I was wrong to you, despite your gain. Like a mark to a flame. You said it was hard to let you go down. Well, it was hard for me too, so I never loved another. Oh no, no, it all came you. You said all the right things. No, I never meant to fall. I was wrong to you, despite your gain. Like a mark to a flame, I could have been everything you needed If you would just let me in. I hope you're happy in the bed where you sleep. Oh, I bet it still smells like me. You said all the right things. No, I never meant to fall. I was wrong to you, despite your gain. Like a mark to a flame, I was blind me. I would have taken your name Like a mark to a flame, to a flame.

Speaker 3: 39:53

I'm the same way. Some of my favorite shows have been very intimate house concerts and just unplugged.

Speaker 1: 40:08

And then you released an album called Louder Than Words, volume 1, and that song was on that record in 2020. I figured you'd correct me if I was wrong on any of the dates.

Speaker 3: 40:43

Volume 2 is actually going to be out this year. Things have been crazy the last couple of years, like COVID and everything. We couldn't play and we couldn't make money touring and all that kind of stuff. But I feel like it gave us some time off, some creative time and some reflection.

Speaker 1: 41:13

It can be a recharging of the batteries that you didn't know you needed. I shouldn't let myself into that because I don't play. I think the most I ever played was like 130 shows a year, but for you guys that are out grinding 200, 250 a year, whatever the magic number is, it's up there right.

Speaker 1: 41:33

You don't realize how much of a grind it is Loading your gear, loading it in, playing the show, loading out, driving home, unloading, Doing that all over again the next day. I think a lot of people just see it as she played a three hour show last night or he played a three hour show, but that's just like the tip of the iceberg. There's a lot that goes into packing up and driving somewhere an hour there, an hour home, an hour load in I think about playing down at Jackie's, and it's literally an hour and 20 minutes down there. An hour to load in, that's two hours. A four hour show now I'm at six hours An hour. Load out, that's a full day. It's not just three hours or four hour show, it's like a whole damn day.

Speaker 1: 42:23

So yeah it really is. I was going to ask you first of all, thanks for sharing the song. It's great and it sounded great in this room. How did that song come to life for you? Can you talk a little bit about the idea where it kind of spawned from?

Speaker 3: 42:43

It's actually kind of funny. I haven't told very many people this, because it's actually kind of a weird story. Do you want to plead the fifth on it? Because a lot of artists don't want to tell their.

Speaker 1: 42:52

They don't want to tell I wrote this because. Because they like the listener to kind of let the canvas be painted in their own way, Like how do you want to interpret it? But if you want to share it, I would love to hear it.

Speaker 3: 43:05

Yeah, it's totally fine. So I wrote the song back in. Oh, it's been a long time. I think I wrote the song in 2012 or 2013, maybe, and I wrote this. So I was sitting on my couch, I was watching Netflix and I was scrolling through what to watch and I was like and at the time I never watched TV and I rarely watched movies, but I was like and it kind of like I didn't really, I just needed something to do.

Speaker 3: 43:45

And I had gone through like this little break up or whatever and I don't even know if I could call it that, because I mean it wasn't, we were never official or anything but I sit down and the silence of the lambs, you know, the box or whatever came through on Netflix and I was like huh, and for some reason I just kept on staring at that and I was like moth to a flame, my wheels were turning. It sounds weird and creepy and strange. But I sat, like I just sat there and I never turned anything on and I just wrote that song that night. Wow, it was. Yeah, it was kind of weird but Interesting, yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:28

You never know where a song is going to hit you and what you're doing. It can be the oddest thing or can be the coolest story, and I've had so many people on the show where I say tell me a little bit about the song and they're like you know what if I did? My story is so anti-climatical that it would just ruin the whole song. I wish I had a good story to tell you, but it's really.

Speaker 3: 44:49

There's no story behind it? Yeah, yeah, there's no story. I mean I have a lot of those, but like, I guess you could say that song was inspired by silence of the lambs.

Speaker 2: 44:57

Yeah, Well, hey, it worked and it sounds great. It's weird.

Speaker 1: 45:00

Who would think like just sitting there listening to that there would be no correlation or any dotted line back to such a show, right?

Speaker 2: 45:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:10

Nobody would ever know that if you didn't expose it.

Speaker 3: 45:13

It was a surprise. Yeah right, that's how it came about.

Speaker 1: 45:16

But Well, Susan's morbid everybody. She watches these weird old psycho killer shows and writes music about it. So when you think you're listening to happy Susan Hickman songs, it's really melancholy, dark, depressing stuff right in the background.

Speaker 3: 45:30

Oh yeah, oh yeah, it all stems from something.

Speaker 1: 45:33

That's right. Who inspires Susan Hickman from a songwriter perspective? Do you have one or two songwriters out there either famous songwriters or maybe even local peers that just do it for you Like, oh my gosh, I wish I could write like them. They write such cool stuff. Who comes to mind?

Speaker 3: 45:54

I. This is a laundry list. How much time do we have?

Speaker 1: 45:59

I've got like. It looks like there's seven hours and seven minutes left on this, so you tell me.

Speaker 3: 46:05

I am such a big fan of my friends and the people in the industry that I've been able to either play shows with or be able to kind of work with or write with. I love Sean McConnell. Sean McConnell is like such an amazing writer. I think he's incredible.

Speaker 1: 46:29

You know what I think? I wanted to pause you right there. I think that Heather Raylene might have said something about that.

Speaker 3: 46:35

Oh, yeah Say person.

Speaker 1: 46:36

Would that be possible?

Speaker 3: 46:37

It's very possible. Okay, fair enough, go ahead. Sean McConnell is amazing. Adam Hood I think Adam Hood is just incredible and he's like the most down to earth guy ever.

Speaker 1: 46:47

Oh, he just followed me on Instagram the other day as a matter of fact. Yeah, he's got a couple of songs that I like and I didn't correlate the two, but interesting that you should say him.

Speaker 3: 46:58

Yeah, he's amazing and he's just got just this cool vibe. You know His writing is very cool.

Speaker 1: 47:04

His songs are just they're cool you know, Doesn't he have a song called Play as Something we Can Sing To or wait, Play as Something.

Speaker 3: 47:16

Play Something we Know.

Speaker 1: 47:18

Yes, and he calls out a bunch of different artists in there like the Rolling Stones and what.

Speaker 3: 47:24

I'm trying to correlate. So yes, it's doesn't like a tongue in cheek, just because, I mean, we all get that.

Speaker 2: 47:29

Sure Play as Some Stones Play. Some Stones Freebird.

Speaker 3: 47:32

Right and it's like it's such a fun way to make fun out of you know, because we all get it. We all get that, of course. Oh, can you, yeah, can you stop playing your own stuff like?

Speaker 2: 47:45

Play as Something we Know, yeah.

Speaker 3: 47:47

But it's yeah, it's cool. I don't know there are so many other ones that I could name that I really just absolutely love. I love Hays Carl, I love. Who am I listening to now, right now?

Speaker 1: 48:01

I love Hays too.

Speaker 3: 48:02

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:04

And I had John Evans on my show, who's a good buddy of mine.

Speaker 3: 48:07

Yes, mine too, I love him.

Speaker 1: 48:08

And he lived with Hays for a while and I'm like dude. And he's the one that got me Dave Rowe on the show, the bass player for Johnny Cash, and he played with Dwight Yocum for years and I'm like dude, can you just give me Hays, Carl, come on. And he hasn't done it yet. So, john Evans, if you're listening to this podcast, dude, come on. You're gonna have to step up a little bit, man.

Speaker 3: 48:28

I'll send John a text. Yeah, please do Help a brother out.

Speaker 1: 48:32

Help a brother out. Help a brother out. I love Hays too. I've seen him play multiple times and I think he's a great songwriter.

Speaker 3: 48:39

Courtney Patton is another one, okay now, I don't know that name. Okay, she's awesome, she's local or. I kind of think she's in she in Kentucky. Okay, I don't know, I'm I'm really bad at everything Fair enough yeah.

Speaker 3: 48:56

No, but she's incredible and she's got a voice. She's got a powerful voice. She's awesome, I love. I see you've got breathe back well on your wall. She's incredible too, like some of her songs, like Seeing her in a very like intimate, like Very like acoustic kind of a room. Some of the songs that she has, like I mean I like I'll listen to her and like just just start balling.

Speaker 3: 49:21

Yeah like some of this stuff, it just hits, you know, and the way that she delivers and the way that she sets her songs up, I think it's very, very cool.

Speaker 1: 49:28

It's interesting that you say that I had a friend come to my show at creekwood this past weekend, chris roggy fisher, and she wrote a song for sandy june sandy june, who is a santa fe artist that's charting right now, but chris had terry and I at a private house party with breathe back well and her boyfriend, paul eason, and they played right paul's with the wilder blue and that was just a great time to just sit in that intimate setting.

Speaker 1: 50:01

But the cool thing is I did an interview at breeze house In green with a girl named season ammons who is out of new bronze pools and it's, it's cool how you you just you know brino, this person, or that you know that person. It's. It's kind of this third degree Networking kind of thing. It's. It's an interesting thing. But I would have probably never known about season if it wasn't for for breed, now that you bring breed of. But you know, we talked about that earlier Just being exposed to to new artists and and new music that you would never probably listen to had you not done a podcast or something that forced you to to open the ears and listen.

Speaker 3: 50:46

Yeah, I haven't seen season and forever We've done, we've done shows together, like over the years. I think it's been over a decade since I've seen her.

Speaker 1: 50:55

Really yeah well, I think she just played the continental club here in town and I think she has some new vinyl coming out which I'm excited about. I got the record from her. She signed I collect vinyl and she signed the Record that she did at abbey road, which was a which was a really cool story.

Speaker 1: 51:14

You know I'm I wanted to always record at abbey road. She said, and I saved up my money. And I mean the whole, the whole record. If you open it up and pull out the liner notes and the inserts, it is just like first class. I mean, it was done first class it's just it's a whole experience. To listen To vinyl, like the music is one thing, but it's the packaging, you know. You just kind of get entrenched in the whole. It's a thing, right.

Speaker 1: 51:44

It's a whole thing, for sure, yeah and it and she did it first class, so her, her record was amazing Um.

Speaker 1: 51:52

I love vinyls but yeah, but brie wonderful right she came here and I think I was still doing my interviews at that kitchen table behind us you know because my studio was kind of small and it wasn't, you know, as big as it is now, so we would just sit at the kitchen table and do that, but she played right there in the living room, much like you're playing in here, so we had a great time. Of course, whiskey was in tow with her, of course.

Speaker 1: 52:17

She had a little doggie bowl with water and food and like had all the amenities when he got here. If you could have one of your songs that you wrote Recorded by a known artist with a big name, who would it be, have you ever thought about?

Speaker 3: 52:36

that. Oh yes, I think about that all the time. I I have a song actually that I've had in mind and I haven't released it because I want Miranda Lambert to record it. I just got to figure out how to get it to her. But I've thought of this and and I actually I do have a couple avenues that I can probably, you know, get my way in, but I really think that she would just knock it out of the park. I think she's incredible. Like I I was on a festival Line up with her years and years and years ago. It was a show that one of the radio stations put on and she was just the most down-to-earth Cool chick, really. Yeah. Like we just hung out backstage, played with her dogs, sunbathing.

Speaker 3: 53:25

Like you know, because I played, and you know because I played early this was like this was like 15, 16 years ago, maybe longer, and um, yeah, you know, they always say, don't meet your heroes and don't meet, you know, people that you really like, just love their music or you know. But I'm very fortunate I, most of the people that I've met in this industry, have been just first class. Yeah, and she's one of them. I think she's amazing, yeah that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 53:52

That's awesome. Well, I think one of the greatest songwriters out there is someone that I had mentioned and kind of the opening, and I believe it was someone that you know, you had shared a stage with, and that's dean dillon.

Speaker 1: 54:06

Oh yeah, oh my god, I mean this guy I was. Uh, and for the listeners out there that have no idea who dean dillon is, first of all shame on you, exactly that's. First and foremost shame on you. If you don't know who dean dillon is, you need to go look dean dillon up. But I sat here this morning and, um, I asked terry, I said, do you, do you have any idea who dean dillon is? Of course she's not a musician, right? She's like no, can't say that I do. And I said, well, have you ever heard this song? And I was gonna, I was gonna share with the listeners, if you don't know who dean dillon is, if you've heard a song like the chair by george straight, that was a dean dillon written song. Easy come, easy go.

Speaker 1: 54:51

Marina del re, miami, miami, by keith whitley, who you know he made that famous. Oh yeah, um, oceanfront property. And even a song that's so huge that everybody requests tennessee whiskey, right, was written by dean dillon. And it's amazing how many songs this guy has written. And I remember seeing an interview with george straight and george said if there was no dean dillon, there would be no george straight. He was the voice of, I mean he wrote a lot of. I mean Don schlitz and paul overstreet wrote a lot for george straight too, but Dean dillon wrote a ton of hit songs for george, and george was just the handsome, good-looking guy, talented artist.

Speaker 1: 55:36

But Dean dillon brought you know, he brought the songs to life. But dean was the the mastermind behind a lot of those songs that he did.

Speaker 3: 55:44

Yeah, I mean, I can only like equate that to like that was like the perfect marriage. You know, yeah, you got the killer songs and you got the killer package with you know um, you know with the looks and the voice and the you know of course and he's just iconic man I like. I really I. Every interaction I've ever had with him has been just he's just a cool old hippie, you know, and he's just like. He's written all of these songs and he's just, he's just cool.

Speaker 1: 56:17

Yeah, you know and you know. You said but I think it was before I hit the record button you said I love the Nashville palace because I was sharing a story with you about sam banks, who I had on my show, and in the Nashville palace john evans were sitting and I were sitting in there having dinner that night when I met sam and listened to sam play. But there is a huge picture on the wall in Nashville palace that I mean it's I don't even know the dimensions, but the posters behind you is probably three times the size of one of those posters but it's a big picture of dean dylan and I said this guy just reeks cool.

Speaker 3: 56:56

I mean.

Speaker 1: 56:57

I mean the foo man chew the whole rugged West Texas cowboy. Look the long hair. It's like that dude wakes up looking cool. You know like I love this guy and I don't even I've never met him. But but you know, not only having those Good rugged looks, but just an amazing songwriter all the way around.

Speaker 3: 57:16

And I think the only person that is cooler than him is his wife, susie. Really, she's amazing lady.

Speaker 1: 57:23

And I don't know her. I haven't had the the the fortune of meeting her, but I'll I have to take your word for it.

Speaker 3: 57:30

She's lovely, she's a really really cool lady, wow, yeah what a songwriter.

Speaker 1: 57:34

But I guess over the years you know you talk about great songs and Accolades. There's been some pretty cool accolades that you've received over the years and I think one of them, I guess, was back in 2010. There was a CMA award that you received. Can you talk about that award back in 2010?

Speaker 3: 57:56

So so 2015 is when.

Speaker 1: 58:00

That was vocalist of the year. You won that right.

Speaker 3: 58:02

That was um Texas CMA. Female vocalist of the year. Okay, all right 2010 I was CMA up close, like I was featured on there.

Speaker 1: 58:12

Maybe that's what it was. That might have been okay. So, 2015 CMA Texas CMA vocalist of the year. I mean, I guess that's a pretty huge accolade for you, right.

Speaker 3: 58:23

That was incredible when, when I found out that I was receiving that award, I was like okay, that's very, very cool, I like that.

Speaker 1: 58:32

Yeah Well, is this one that you're You're is does the industry vote on that one, or is it peers that vote? How did how did that one come about that?

Speaker 3: 58:41

one I believe was industry. Okay so I mean it's an honor either way, but to be.

Speaker 1: 58:47

I would think more so if the industry, your peers, are your peers, you know your people that are.

Speaker 3: 58:52

You know that you, you know you make music with. They're putting you up for that. That was, yeah, that's pretty special, yeah.

Speaker 1: 58:58

I had a couple of guys on my show local, local guys, um, in an Ozzy Osbourne tribute band and phenomenal, phenomenal tribute band, by the way but I think they had won multiple awards like that, like Top tribute band of the year. And I asked them about the accolades what do they mean to you? And they're like well, I mean, I guess, if you really think about it, it means that your peers really appreciate what you're doing, and I think you would probably have the same sentiment. Right, it's pretty amazing when people in the industry or I mean, a trophy is a trophy or whatever at the end of the day it has really no value, but it's the sentiment behind that that says wow, people, actually it's pretty cool that they think this highly of me, right?

Speaker 3: 59:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree, yeah, yeah, it's a.

Speaker 3: 59:49

It's an amazing feeling and I you know, with everything that I put out and everything that I do, I always try to make sure that it's to the best of my ability, without Going down that like perfectionist route which I have to really check myself sometimes it's like because I I was actually having a conversation the other day with a friend of mine about we need to stop Saving things because we don't think they're good enough or because, you know, just put it out there and let it breathe, and let let it let it out, you know are you?

Speaker 1: 1:00:22

are you a perfectionist or an ocd person like that? Yes, okay, and I am too, and I hate that quality sometimes but then. I also love that quality. It's a love hate relationship I bet you even have with that. I'm very structured, I'm on time all the time. My my music gear is packed a certain way into perfection, like every cable is rolled the same and and.

Speaker 1: 1:00:47

I don't know if I have a good quality, but I know that's a great quality because when you go to the next show, people don't you know how many times have you been asked at a show. Can we help you with anything? What's your response?

Speaker 3: 1:00:59

I got it.

Speaker 1: 1:01:00

I got it, thank you, thank you, and I think I think people think you're kind of being rude or mean like really wow you. I mean, I offered you help, but I always explain to them if one thing doesn't get packed in here, so is this one out there going to be that really bad for you? Do you think people will recognize that I'm the best person in world? I really do wish. That's what I wanted to have, even if they would like, like.

Speaker 1: 1:01:30

If you think I'm the best person in the world, at least guys like me.

Speaker 3: 1:01:30

Yeah, what'sets pitions there that are crazy and you start Me. It really don't know if it went that right. That is kind of what I meant by Smash U forgiven. Yeah, I do think taking something.

Speaker 3: 1:01:40

The next time I have to have you know things kind of set a certain way, and I don't think it's necessarily like, I just like it to be the same, so I can then deliver whatever I can deliver, and so I'm very particular about my sound, I'm very particular about everything that goes into. However, everything's set up. I want chords neat, because I am clumsy and I will trip. I mean, there's a method to my madness and there's reasons.

Speaker 1: 1:02:08

Oh, and I thought I was weird.

Speaker 1: 1:02:09

You're really a weirdo, I am a weirdo, oh yeah, I tell everybody I'm like I'm probably the weirdest person you know, like I'm awkward and I'm weird, you're actually not, and you'd be surprised how many people are like that my buddy, brett Axelson, who's a local musician you might have seen his name on Facebook and whatnot, but he's very meticulous too. It's just like everything has to be to the nines. Chris Hughes, miley Guitars and I are like two peas in a pot. Everything has to be spot on and perfect, like the music has to be, the cables have to be, and it was funny. We were leaving Lone Pine Saturday, played out there from one to four. I saw Chris over there rolling cables and he got to the point where there was like there was one loop that was not the same as the rest, and I caught it out of the corner of my eye and I said to myself this is a true story.

Speaker 1: 1:03:11

I should, you not. And Chris is, when he listens to this, he's gonna. He will verify that that I am not tell making the story up. I looked out of the corner of my eye and I saw this and I said that's not gonna fly, he will not leave that cable like that. And then I heard him muttering under his breath like and I looked over there and he had shaken that whole cable out and started over. I said I was wondering how long or if you were gonna pack that cable looking like that and it was just literally one stupid loop. That wasn't the same. He could have just folded it over and put it in there, but had to redo the whole thing.

Speaker 3: 1:03:48

Right, See that that is me that's a problem.

Speaker 1: 1:03:51

That's a problem.

Speaker 3: 1:03:53

That is me 2AT, and so my fiance, Leo Mendoza, also a musician. Fantastic, he drives me nuts with his cables.

Speaker 1: 1:04:03

It's the most Is he worst? Is he worse than you?

Speaker 3: 1:04:06

Okay, so here's the thing we all have our own version of what is right.

Speaker 1: 1:04:12

Well, I'm gonna have to stop you, because you know, if you sit here and bash a Leo on the show, you know he's gonna wanna come on here and seek retribution, right, oh, and you can.

Speaker 3: 1:04:21

And you can, we've actually done an interview together and it was actually the like one of my favorite interviews.

Speaker 3: 1:04:26

It was very cool, but no. So we all have our version of what like we like things, how we like them. Of course he wraps his cables because that is the easiest solution for him. I wrap my cables, but we know not to do each other stuff unless we're gonna do it exactly how each other likes it. And honestly, that can even be like, that can even filter over into relationships. You know, if you communicate how you like things and how, then you can really have a very healthy- Then he can meet your expectations, right, yeah, and vice versa, and so I think that's super important.

Speaker 3: 1:05:01

But, yes, I have everything laid out Like I've been doing this so long that I've built up this system all of the things that I need to make sure that everything's completely functional.

Speaker 1: 1:05:15

So, yeah, Well, you know what's interesting and I think you'll say I know exactly what you're talking about. So in my driveway you'll see it when you go out I have a Chevy Silverado that I really don't drive much, but that was for a long time. That was kind of a primary vehicle for me to carry music gear to a show, because I have a cover on it and I have a nice padded bed and it's not a work truck, it was for to put my music stuff in and the stuff was always packed in the back of that truck to the nines, like everything had its place and it was always done the same way over and over again, right? So I had put my truck in the shop and I had a loner truck and this loner truck was not a full-size truck like the Silverado, it's more like a mid-size truck, so the bed of it wasn't as big as this.

Speaker 1: 1:06:10

I was playing a little Mexican food restaurant like a mile and a half up the street and I pack all my stuff, I load it out, I drive home and Terry and some friends were still up there having margaritas and I get home and I'm like something's missing. Something's missing. I had left my guitar at the restaurant.

Speaker 3: 1:06:33

Oh no.

Speaker 1: 1:06:34

And I called her and was panicking Is my guitar still sitting up there? But the point of that story was because the bed of that truck was a little different, my stuff didn't get packed in the back the same way that I always pack it. So I could literally in this truck, I could literally just take a quick glance and say I've got everything, Everything's packed, because I've seen it so many times. But because this stuff was shifted around differently, I didn't realize that the guitar was missing out of the bag. So we talk about OCD and we talk about routine, of doing things the same way. It can be great and it can be bad all at the same time. But you literally get that meticulous with stuff, how it's packed and how you put it in the car, right?

Speaker 3: 1:07:28

Well, because I mean, when you do it so often, you do it so many times, you know what's gonna be the most functional.

Speaker 3: 1:07:36

Of course and I am at all about a functional type Like I will spend a lot of money on things that are going to be like making my life easier and simpler, and so I'm very big when it comes to that, and it's actually kind of funny, like I talked a little bit about my sister earlier, but she actually came to my house last year and she spent about two weeks with me Helping me like, organize some different, different ways.

Speaker 3: 1:08:05

She's like a genius when it comes to that. We put everything in you know little bins and like, like my whole guest room is the, the whole Closet is just like, in this bin is batteries, cables, this that I mean, and it's labeled and it's I Don't have to worry about, like where is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah of course you know, I Eliminated junk drawers. I eliminated junk boxes and just stuff that you throw in a box. I'll get to it, I'll get to it, I'll get to it.

Speaker 3: 1:08:35

And I and I hate that I was like that because I would let things pile up and then I didn't even know what I had, of course you know. So I'm very thankful for that and I Feel like just you know the functionality of it and just you get all of that out of your brain, of you know. When you get it all out and you can see it and he's like, okay, I can, I can function.

Speaker 1: 1:08:59

Yeah, all of the things that I said earlier about the truck and the way we pack it's, I'm not weird, right.

Speaker 3: 1:09:06

No, I mean, you understand me, right? Yes, I understand you, but it's what works. I mean, everybody has their own system, whatever that system is, and if it works for them, then you know go for it, I agree.

Speaker 1: 1:09:24

Well, I was wondering if you might play another song for myself and the listeners from around the world.

Speaker 3: 1:09:30

I absolutely can thanks. A song is called rewind.

Speaker 4: 1:09:54

People say living, let me live is a way to let your worries go. I know tomorrow is coming and I'll get a hurry. I'm running out of gas. Oh, today, focus, oh, I Leave. I need to be why I, I need to be why I Leave. Still your time. Oh, come Go, I, I See you. Yeah, I Can't I, I. It's hard to focus when it's so far behind the emotion from my shell, so lonely my man. I need to be why I, I need to be why. Yeah, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. I need to be why I need to be why I. I need to be why yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, if I never would carry the way where my body raised All my burdens today. It's hard to focus when it's so far behind the emotion from my shell. So lonely my man. I need to be why I, I need to be, why I, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

Speaker 1: 1:12:35

Oh, oh, oh oh. That was a song called Rewind and it was wonderfully done. Good job, thank you Love it.

Speaker 3: 1:12:57

That's one of my favorites for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:12:59

Well, I think this was uh. Well, I was gonna say first that you have a, you have a beautiful tone and your voice is very calming and it's it's nice to listen to you.

Speaker 2: 1:13:08

Well, yeah, you're welcome, thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:13:10

And so yeah, song called Rewind. This was a single also that came out in 2019 and it was also on the louder than words volume one. Correct, okay.

Speaker 3: 1:13:22

Correct. Yeah, we released it, we released the video and we put the single out there and then we promoted it to a country radio in 2020, which was actually very interesting. It was very short-lived because it was right as COVID was hitting and I was actually out of the country on touring and I remember my radio promoter called me and he's like yeah, we're Radio tours canceled Everything's like. I mean I actually I got back into the country and within two days, everything was shut down. It was crazy.

Speaker 2: 1:13:57

Wow.

Speaker 3: 1:13:57

So I think we got like six weeks out of it, but it definitely did not reach near what. I think we got a top 40 out of it, but that was it. And Some people, they kept on releasing music. I was just like, hmm, so we didn't release anything until like the end of 2020. After that, and even still, it was kind of still a weird time. What a bummer. Yeah, but we have a remix coming out this year, yeah, 2024. So be on the lookout for that. It's very interesting. It's something that I've never done before and I think I think it's cool, I think it's, I think it's really neat, interesting, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:14:37

It'd be interesting to hear it. Your debut record by the same name, susan Hickman, and louder than words, volume one, were both critically acclaimed records, were they not? Can you speak to a little bit about that, and who was loving on your music at the time?

Speaker 3: 1:14:59

I mean the self titled record. So I don't I don't want to say this, so anybody does any digging, but that actually I like people to kind of think that that's my debut album, but it's not. I tried to scrub the internet for a lot of, a lot of reasons. There's stuff that I've put out before that was just not there, like experimental type of things I get it, yeah, like erase the past, and this is the new beginning right.

Speaker 1: 1:15:25

I've talked to multiple artists that have done that.

Speaker 3: 1:15:28

And it's like one of those things, like you know, when you're young, you're like trying to find your identity. You're trying to find you know, and you're working with people that maybe don't get really where you want to go.

Speaker 2: 1:15:38

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:15:38

Musically, yeah, and so, and that's why it's such, so important to have a good relationship with you know, like your producer and whoever you're working with really just open communication and that's 100%.

Speaker 3: 1:15:50

But, um, no, the self titled record that was. That was huge for me because it was really the first project that we put out that I was just so proud of and I got to work with a lot of really awesome people and we had a really great team around that time. You know, I had a. I was being pitched to major representation. We did a lot of label showcases we had, you know, we had like Music Row and CMT, like they. You know they were, they were behind me and that was really awesome.

Speaker 3: 1:16:22

You know some some really great reviews and really great publications like Dream West or Country Weekly and actually I don't even think Country Weekly exists anymore, but that was just that was a big deal to be in that magazine back in the day. Yeah, and I got to do so many cool things. My publicist, martha Moore, she was, oh my gosh, that lady that's one of the hardest working women I've met, a man, woman period that I've ever like met in my entire life. She was just absolutely incredible and we have her coming on again in 2024. So she's a very, very big part of you know me getting out there.

Speaker 1: 1:17:04

Sure, is she here in Houston, or is she some she's in Tennessee. Tennessee.

Speaker 3: 1:17:07

Okay, yeah, kind of close to Nashville, but she was incredible yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:17:12

I just a little bit earlier about a remix of your single or the song that you just played. You also talked a little bit about a volume to coming up. Kind of recap that for the listeners. Like what can the listeners expect new?

Speaker 3: 1:17:32

coming from the Susan Hickman camp and say so if you're a fan of new music, there's going to be so much music released during 2024. It's going to be kind of crazy. So we have the volume to, and so for a very long time we had these, you know these songs recorded and we release the volume one in 20, in 2020, and my thought all along. We're going to release, you know, two different projects volume one, volume two. We're changing a little bit of the strategy, kind of. You know, after the fact, volume two is going to be an acoustic version, like a stripped down version of volume one, and volume two is going to be kind of like, I think it's got I believe it's seven songs on there, so kind of a not a full length record, and then we're recording the new record. Okay, the new, new record. So we've got acoustic record, the record that is already recorded and ready to be released, and then we have we're going to start recording the new record.

Speaker 4: 1:18:43

So there's, a lot of stuff.

Speaker 3: 1:18:44

There's a lot going on. There's we've got a fan exclusive tour that we're working on for the for the first quarter of 2024. We've got the summer tour in the States, and then we have in August. I'm going to be going over to Europe and playing again, which is going to be amazing, and then coming back in October and getting married.

Speaker 1: 1:19:08

Well, other than that you have nothing going on, other than that, yeah, I mean pretty, pretty basic Wow.

Speaker 3: 1:19:15

Yeah, I think I got all of that out. I mean there may be some things that I missed in there, but yeah, so I have to ask you will there be any vinyl that comes out? Of any of this.

Speaker 1: 1:19:25

Yes, Now we're talking. Now we're talking. Well, I'm going to hunt you down. I always like to support the artist. A lot of times they'll say come, can I just give you a CD, or can I give you some vinyl? I like to buy it like I really do. I really do. I like to support my friends and and the artist. I know that's how you guys make a living, but but I will force you to sign it so I can put it in my collection, if you'll agree to that.

Speaker 3: 1:19:47

I got you, I got you.

Speaker 1: 1:19:49

You recently, I believe, played a show down in Webster in the Webster area with Tracy Bird. Tell the listeners about that show.

Speaker 3: 1:19:57

Oh, it was great. Oh, my gosh Tracy's such a legend. I have listened to his music ever since, like I can remember, yeah, so it was cool to be. I think I was on a, I think it was a festival lineup with him. It was really long time ago, over a decade ago and it was cool to be able to reconnect with him. His band is solid Such great guys. Actually, his guitar player, chad Ware, played guitar for Moth to a Flame.

Speaker 2: 1:20:27

Oh, he's on that recording. So yeah, interesting, so it's.

Speaker 3: 1:20:30

It's fun to be able to you know all the different bands that play around everybody kind of like that's what I was saying earlier.

Speaker 1: 1:20:36

It's like this interweaving of people, you know, kind of. Yeah you know that guy? Oh yeah, he played on my record. Oh yeah, he was with that guy over there, kind of thing. Right, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:20:46

Yeah, but it was a great show and band killed it. As always. I love my guys like they're. They're such a solid group of guys and I say guys, we didn't so a fiddle player, bonnie Riley. She played plays with me sometimes, like when we do like bigger festival or rodeo type of things. So sometimes I like oh, guys and Cal.

Speaker 1: 1:21:05

Yeah, right, yeah, sure she knows what you mean.

Speaker 1: 1:21:07

Yeah, you mentioned it earlier about playing on, I guess, bills with bigger name artists and a lot of times they're always so great and I was going to ask you more specifically about that with the bigger name artists. Do you find that most of them are really enjoyable to play with, or are there, are there still some that come with some baggage and they're just not fun to be around? I'm not asking for names, of course, but but I was just curious. If it's like a 90 90 10 split, like 90% of them are great, but then you have a handful of them that are not that fun or they don't want to like spend time with you. Like I'm sure a lot of the big name artists the big name artists you would like for them to spend time with you on that bill but and to talk backstage and stuff, but some of them probably don't do it and I'm just curious, like, what the ratio is of the ones that are standoffish versus the ones that just kind of are fun to be around and they're really cool like that.

Speaker 3: 1:22:16

For the most part, I feel like. I feel like they're pretty like receptive to wanting to have a conversation and interact and all of that. There's been some rare occasions where I have to check myself sometimes. You know, sometimes when you're doing a show, either before or after or both, you're just in this like kind of like alright, I gotta get my mind right, I got it, and you don't know people's process. You know like I know my process and I know how I work and you know, sometimes you'll hear people say like oh, I met this person and they were just and there's like there's, there's two sides to every story, right, I saw this meme the other day and it was of I think it was like one of one, of like the royal family or something, and he was holding up his hand and it looked like he was flipping the bird and from the other angle he was giving like you know how you, you, you give like the Three, hold up three fingers or whatever, and he was just.

Speaker 3: 1:23:26

He was like okay, or like something I don't know, and I was like yeah, okay.

Speaker 3: 1:23:30

so you never really know, unless somebody is just absolutely all interpretation, yeah yeah, and I feel like if you're receptive to you know body language and that kind of stuff and you're not just like In someone's face and you know, because I feel like sometimes that happens. But no, that was a tangent and I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: 1:23:51

No, but I mean most of the. The artist are cool that you play with the bigger, the bigger names.

Speaker 3: 1:23:57

Yeah, I mean like, for instance, like Last night I did a private party. There was a bunch of musicians and we're all like after the show Until five o'clock in the morning passing around a guitar, telling stories, you know, and I think that that is. It's cool to be able to do that with. You know, obviously you know people that are in your community, in your level, and then when you have those other, those bigger names that you're sitting around playing with, sure, and they're hearing your stories maybe for the first time, or even hearing your music really for the first time maybe, and I think that's really huge.

Speaker 3: 1:24:34

And I like I and I think about those things when People are coming up after me, you know, like the younger singer, songwriters and stuff like that, like I've done a lot of mentoring and and one on one type of, you know, stage growth or here, do this with your guitar or anything from songwriting performance. You know I didn't have a lot of that when I was coming up. I didn't have Someone that I could just bounce things off of because I mean I was very young, I was always the only girl and you know, my back in the day, like my band was all they were all like in their 40s, 50s, 60s, you know. So, like I don't know, I feel like it's it's really important to kind of just check, check yourself and and understand that other people have their own process to.

Speaker 1: 1:25:22

Well, and I think it's important for you, as somebody that's established themselves in the music industry, to be that mentor for the up and comers and to be that role model and I mentioned earlier spending many years in professional hockey. You could. You could always see the players Come out of the tunnel onto the ice and the kids hanging over the rail just wanting them to bump fist. You know, some of the guys were really gracious with that and then there were some that just wouldn't give them the time of day and I take mental snapshots of things like that and the thought is you're a douche, that you, that you do that, because you were that kid that was holding your hand over the rail for your idols that were coming out onto the ice right, wanting that fist bump, and how would it or how did it make you feel if they didn't do that? To you it was kind of like it took the wind out of your sales, surely. So why would you be that guy?

Speaker 1: 1:26:30

You get to that level of hockey and I'm picking on hockey, not picking, but I'm just using that as an example because it's what I know why would you do what you knew didn't make you feel good back in the day, you're not being a very good role model, right, and so that's why I say, when you've got great music out and people know your name, it's important for you to bump those fists and to take the time to show the younger ones. Hey, don't do it this way. Maybe think about it this way, and if you're not doing those things you're not do, I don't think you're giving your name Like in your case, susan Hickman is not making a good name for herself if you're not giving back to those younger people and I know you do those things. But there are artists out there that Probably think they're above that, right surely there are, I don't know who they are right off the top of my head but, surely there's one or two out there.

Speaker 3: 1:27:24

And that's an any industry absolutely.

Speaker 3: 1:27:26

It can be hockey music, whatever, for sure and I feel like you miss out on so much. So I'm and to go back to, like, the music, mentoring and that kind of thing, I can't tell you how much I learned from these younger people. Of course, you know like they always say like if you, if you want to, if you're at a plateau or you want to learn something, work with the people that are coming up, because sometimes, like we get in, we get in this, like, okay, I have this knowledge, I know what to do and I know what's right and you know.

Speaker 3: 1:28:02

But there's a lot of things that you miss just because you have been in this for so long yeah and even just ideas, even like talking about songwriting, like I worked with some really, really talented kids and I say kids like I feel like anyone younger than me as a kid I mean, I'm still a kid, but I feel I feel like I learned so much from them, you know, even just like lyrically, they had these ideas and it's like what year 14.

Speaker 3: 1:28:34

Yeah what is happening right now of course and even teaching things on guitar, as I would be teaching something, like I'd have a one of those aha moments. It's like, oh my gosh, like I didn't even really really realize that that's I don't know, it's just, it's mind blowing that you totally totally, I totally get that. Like, as you're talking through something, like something just makes sense, and you're like, oh, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:29:02

Well, you can't know everything. Even I don't care if you've. You know, if you're chat atkins, right, I don't even know why I thought about him, but it just came to mind, like I think, of somebody that's been around forever. I think he's probably one of the greatest guitarist in the world and I'm sure if he was sitting here he would tell you I don't even know everything about the guitar. You always have to be willing to learn.

Speaker 3: 1:29:23

Absolutely there.

Speaker 1: 1:29:24

You never stop learning. You never know everything.

Speaker 1: 1:29:27

You can never master and you don't get no. And you? You don't have kids right now, but I've got three. They're all grown, but I still learn things from them, even at my age. I still learn things, even from my kids. So it's important to be that good role model and to to be a positive influence for the younger kids, because they're going to grow up and hopefully be like you, like you're. You're setting the stage for them to be a good person and to pass the torch and pass the torch and pass the torch right, but you know we talked a little bit about the show down in the Webster area with Tracy.

Speaker 1: 1:30:07

My in contact with his people and I'm hoping that we can work out a date so I can have him on my show. I've always been a big fan of Tracy and it and it always helps that he was a Viter Texas boy. You know a local Texas musician that you know had his time in the spotlight for sure. So hopefully we'll get something lined up. What is coming up for you as it relates to shows that the listeners can look forward to, maybe if they're local and maybe you know you talked a little bit about being back over in the UK. You know, over across the pond right, talk to the listeners a little bit about maybe shows or events or just anything. I wanted to open the floor up to you to talk about exciting things, maybe not so much new music but other things that are coming from the Susan Hickman camp.

Speaker 3: 1:31:07

So the hub is susanhickmancom and you can find all of the information, what we've got going on for our shows. We've got a lot of really cool rodeo things happening. So if you zip over to susanhickmancom you can find all of that out. All my streaming, you know platforms and all of my music and all that good stuff is on the website as well. Social media I'm on just about all of them. So if you like to follow on social media then I definitely. I am the only one that responds and, you know, goes back and forth with that. So if you're, if you're on there, you're talking to me.

Speaker 1: 1:31:47

So well, it's good to know. So you guys make sure I'm sure you have merch out there too, yeah, so I always encourage the listeners of the show to go out and buy a sticker, buy a shirt, buy a record, buy something right, and you'd be surprised how much that helps the artists that are just trying to put gas in the tank to get to the next show, right.

Speaker 2: 1:32:11

Oh, for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:32:12

I think every little bit helps for them and it always feels good to support a local musician. I think there's a sticker right behind me, susan, right? What is it? No, I don't have that sticker out, but I think I might have it on my guitar case. But it's like support, you know, support your local musicians, right?

Speaker 4: 1:32:30

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:32:31

You always want to try to support them For sure and you get it.

Speaker 1: 1:32:34

Well, listen, I have had an absolute blast chatting with you and I wish you the very best on everything you have coming up.

Speaker 3: 1:32:43

It sounds like you have a lot coming up in 2024, which is super exciting right, it is exciting and I did want to mention too, since we are recording the new record and all of that, we do have a fundraising campaign going on where you can. You know you can get anything from a signed guitar to you know the private fan, exclusive house concert, all kinds of different things. You know pre-sneak peaks of the whole album, acoustic versions of like the demos, and that kind of stuff. So if you want to head to my website, that's all going to be on there as well.

Speaker 1: 1:33:17

So everything that you just mentioned can be found on susanhickmancom, correct? Yes, well, you guys make sure to check that out. I think it will be worth your while, and certainly some exciting things coming up for you, which I'm excited about Now that I've gotten to know you personally, right, not just the name. So, I'm excited to see what you have on the horizon. Well, I was wondering also if you would do us the honor of maybe playing us out this evening Sure, of course.

Speaker 1: 1:33:48

And while Susan gets set up over there in the hot seat, I'll ask the listeners to like, share and subscribe to the podcast on Facebook at backstage pass radio podcast, on Instagram at backstage pass radio, twitter, backstage pass PC and on the website at backstage pass radio com. You all make sure to take care of yourselves and each other, and we'll see you right back here on the next episode of backstage pass radio.

Speaker 2: 1:36:50

Thanks so much for joining us. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of backstage pass radio. Make sure to follow Randy on Facebook and Instagram at Randy Halsey music and on Twitter at our Halsey music. Also make sure to like, subscribe and turn on alerts for upcoming podcasts. If you enjoyed the podcast, make sure to share the link with a friend and tell them backstage pass radio is the best show on the web for everything music. We'll see you next time right here on backstage pass radio.